Lunar Oasis: ESA Plans a Moon Base for Long-Term Science

WEBVTT 0 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.424 Stuart Gary: This is space time series 29 episode 1 00:00:02.536 --> 00:00:05.346 130 for broadcast on 30 October 2 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.320 2026. Coming up on Space Time, 3 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:11.440 Europe's plans for an OASIS on the Moon. 4 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:14.040 When they do start building cities on the 5 00:00:14.040 --> 00:00:16.320 moon, should you move there, we'll take a 6 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:18.880 look at the issues and neutrinos 7 00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:21.320 holding clues to some of the universe's 8 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:24.000 biggest secrets. All that and more 9 00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:26.320 coming up on, um, Space Time. 10 00:00:27.680 --> 00:00:30.480 Stuart Gary: Welcome to Space Time with Stuart 11 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:30.800 G. 12 00:00:46.940 --> 00:00:48.820 Stuart Gary: The European Space Agency is looking at 13 00:00:48.820 --> 00:00:51.220 developing its own moon base, a facility that 14 00:00:51.220 --> 00:00:53.340 would supply energy, communications, data 15 00:00:53.340 --> 00:00:55.900 handling and logistics on the lunar surface. 16 00:00:56.380 --> 00:00:58.420 The Outpost for Advanced Scientific 17 00:00:58.420 --> 00:01:00.940 Investigation Station, or oasis, could 18 00:01:00.940 --> 00:01:02.820 provide scientists with an integrated 19 00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:05.400 infrastructure designed to survive the long 20 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:07.800 cold 15 Earth Day lunar nights. 21 00:01:08.120 --> 00:01:10.880 ESUS says the prolonged days of darkness and 22 00:01:10.880 --> 00:01:13.040 plummeting temperatures can severely damage 23 00:01:13.040 --> 00:01:15.280 electrical equipment without power or thermal 24 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:18.280 protection to ride out the darkness. OASIS 25 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:20.200 would replace the need for long duration 26 00:01:20.200 --> 00:01:22.520 payloads carrying their own complex systems 27 00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:24.960 for power and communications. It would 28 00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:27.120 collect solar energy during the lunar day, 29 00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:29.600 producing at least 75 watts of continuous 30 00:01:29.600 --> 00:01:32.200 power during daylight and 15 watts from banks 31 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:34.160 of batteries during the lunar night. Along 32 00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:36.180 with communications, data hack handling and 33 00:01:36.180 --> 00:01:38.980 data storage. Detachable harness cable 34 00:01:38.980 --> 00:01:41.460 connections would feed payloads mounted on a 35 00:01:41.460 --> 00:01:43.380 lunar lander, as well as three separate 36 00:01:43.380 --> 00:01:45.580 deployable harnesses for payloads on the 37 00:01:45.580 --> 00:01:48.460 lunar surface. Scientists would simply plug 38 00:01:48.460 --> 00:01:50.660 their experiments into Oasis, rather than 39 00:01:50.660 --> 00:01:52.980 each experiment needing its own life support 40 00:01:53.060 --> 00:01:56.060 system to survive the long night. This would 41 00:01:56.060 --> 00:01:57.980 allow scientific instruments to continue 42 00:01:57.980 --> 00:02:00.460 operating for years instead of just a single 43 00:02:00.460 --> 00:02:03.040 lunar day. Oasis could also include 44 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.480 parking bays. Lunar rovers could be stored 45 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.360 and recharged. And ESA's 46 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:11.120 plans for the moon don't end there. They're 47 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:13.000 also developing their own lunar lander called 48 00:02:13.000 --> 00:02:15.400 Argonaut, which would carry 1,500 kilogrammes 49 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:17.719 of payload to the lunar south pole using the 50 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:20.440 Ariane 64 booster. Italy's 51 00:02:20.440 --> 00:02:22.680 Thales Alenius Space is already building the 52 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:25.200 lunar descent element. Current 53 00:02:25.200 --> 00:02:27.600 plans call for the first mission, Argonaut 1 54 00:02:27.600 --> 00:02:29.880 to launch by the end of 2030, with follow up 55 00:02:29.880 --> 00:02:32.080 UH missions roughly every two to three years. 56 00:02:33.370 --> 00:02:35.330 ESA is also developing its own constellation 57 00:02:35.330 --> 00:02:37.330 of lunar communications and navigation 58 00:02:37.330 --> 00:02:39.450 satellites called Project Moonlight. 59 00:02:39.770 --> 00:02:41.810 Moonlight would include one for high rate 60 00:02:41.810 --> 00:02:43.770 data communications, with the other four 61 00:02:43.770 --> 00:02:46.410 being for navigation. The first would launch 62 00:02:46.410 --> 00:02:48.970 in 2028 and the four constellations should be 63 00:02:48.970 --> 00:02:51.770 up and running by 2030. This is 64 00:02:51.770 --> 00:02:54.250 space time still to come. 65 00:02:54.650 --> 00:02:56.810 When they do start building cities on the 66 00:02:56.810 --> 00:02:58.990 moon, should you move there, we'll take a 67 00:02:58.990 --> 00:03:01.630 look at the issues and neutrinos 68 00:03:01.790 --> 00:03:04.230 holding clues to the universe's biggest 69 00:03:04.230 --> 00:03:06.470 secrets. All that, and, uh, more still to 70 00:03:06.470 --> 00:03:08.190 come on spacetime. 71 00:03:24.040 --> 00:03:26.520 A new study warns that a self sustaining city 72 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:29.120 on the moon Would likely fail after around a 73 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.040 decade, with billionaires turning their focus 74 00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:34.360 to space. In recent years, two researchers 75 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.640 have looked at how a proposed village or even 76 00:03:36.640 --> 00:03:38.920 a city on the moon would work, and whether 77 00:03:38.920 --> 00:03:40.880 there'd be enough natural resources there to 78 00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:43.000 sustain communities without having to bring 79 00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:45.920 water and power from earth. The authors found 80 00:03:45.920 --> 00:03:47.840 that while access to sunlight Makes 81 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:49.640 sustainable power generation possible, 82 00:03:49.720 --> 00:03:51.720 there's only a finite amount of water 83 00:03:51.720 --> 00:03:54.070 available, which means a small city Would 84 00:03:54.070 --> 00:03:56.110 likely run out of water after about a decade 85 00:03:56.110 --> 00:03:58.030 or so, Even if they were recycling their 86 00:03:58.030 --> 00:03:59.990 water as efficiently as on the international 87 00:04:00.070 --> 00:04:02.670 space station. The research shows that 88 00:04:02.670 --> 00:04:05.110 without recycling, A city of, say, a million 89 00:04:05.110 --> 00:04:07.590 people Would exhaust the entire estimated 90 00:04:07.590 --> 00:04:09.910 lunar water supply within about two years. 91 00:04:10.550 --> 00:04:13.510 And with extreme 98% water recycling, which 92 00:04:13.510 --> 00:04:14.670 is similar to what happens on the 93 00:04:14.670 --> 00:04:16.590 international space station, the supply would 94 00:04:16.590 --> 00:04:19.040 only last roughly 100 years. And however, 95 00:04:19.200 --> 00:04:21.520 lower realistic estimates of lunar water 96 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.840 Means even a small city could run out within 97 00:04:23.840 --> 00:04:26.450 a decade. The alternative would be a smaller, 98 00:04:26.450 --> 00:04:28.840 uh, moon village of about 1,000 people, which 99 00:04:28.840 --> 00:04:30.720 is comparable with research stations in 100 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:33.400 Antarctica. The findings, reported in the 101 00:04:33.400 --> 00:04:35.520 journal frontiers in space technologies, 102 00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.000 Found that a smaller village or town of no 103 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:39.720 more than a thousand people could be 104 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.080 sustainable for centuries with carefree water 105 00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:44.480 use. This is space time 106 00:04:45.180 --> 00:04:48.100 still to come, neutrinos holding clues to the 107 00:04:48.100 --> 00:04:50.860 universe's biggest secrets. And later in the 108 00:04:50.860 --> 00:04:53.580 science report, A new study warns that kids 109 00:04:53.580 --> 00:04:55.980 from socioeconomically disadvantaged families 110 00:04:55.980 --> 00:04:58.380 are, uh, more likely to have autism spectrum 111 00:04:58.380 --> 00:05:00.780 disorder. All that and more still to come 112 00:05:01.340 --> 00:05:02.460 on space time, 113 00:05:10.860 --> 00:05:11.180 Foreign. 114 00:05:17.820 --> 00:05:20.060 Two new experiments Involving ghostly 115 00:05:20.060 --> 00:05:22.060 particles called neutrinos could provide 116 00:05:22.140 --> 00:05:24.660 science with new clues about the evolution of 117 00:05:24.660 --> 00:05:26.819 our universe, Especially during its early 118 00:05:26.819 --> 00:05:29.540 days. Neutrinos are, uh, weakly interacting 119 00:05:29.540 --> 00:05:31.700 elemental particles Produced in things like 120 00:05:31.700 --> 00:05:34.380 the cores of stars, in nuclear reactors, in 121 00:05:34.380 --> 00:05:36.780 supernovae, and in atomic explosions. 122 00:05:37.450 --> 00:05:39.250 They're so weakly interacting that there are 123 00:05:39.250 --> 00:05:40.770 millions of them Passing through you right 124 00:05:40.770 --> 00:05:43.330 now. They're called neutrinos because they 125 00:05:43.330 --> 00:05:46.050 have no electric charge, Only half spin, 126 00:05:46.050 --> 00:05:48.450 and almost no mass. That means they can 127 00:05:48.450 --> 00:05:50.250 travel at close to the speed of light. 128 00:05:50.650 --> 00:05:52.890 They're the most common particle with mass in 129 00:05:52.890 --> 00:05:55.330 the universe. Only the massless photon is 130 00:05:55.330 --> 00:05:58.010 more numerous. Neutrinos come in three 131 00:05:58.010 --> 00:06:00.650 basic types known as flavours. Electron, 132 00:06:00.650 --> 00:06:03.290 muon, and tau, each with its own antimatter 133 00:06:03.290 --> 00:06:05.660 counterpart. But one of the strangest 134 00:06:05.660 --> 00:06:07.780 qualities of these already strange elemental 135 00:06:07.780 --> 00:06:10.020 particles Is their ability to oscillate 136 00:06:10.020 --> 00:06:12.860 between flavours. So a neutrino which 137 00:06:12.860 --> 00:06:15.100 may have started its life in the sun's core 138 00:06:15.100 --> 00:06:17.540 as, say, a muon neutrino, could arrive at a 139 00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:19.820 detector on Earth as an electron or tau 140 00:06:19.820 --> 00:06:22.620 neutrino. And because they travel unhindered 141 00:06:22.620 --> 00:06:24.420 across the cosmos, ultra high energy 142 00:06:24.420 --> 00:06:26.980 neutrinos give astronomers an unabsorbed 143 00:06:26.980 --> 00:06:29.700 direct window into high energy cosmic events 144 00:06:29.700 --> 00:06:31.740 like supernovae and black holes. 145 00:06:32.970 --> 00:06:35.610 Quantum models suggest that heavy decoupled 146 00:06:35.610 --> 00:06:38.210 neutrinos from the early universe may help 147 00:06:38.210 --> 00:06:40.850 explain why antimatter disappeared after the 148 00:06:40.850 --> 00:06:43.810 Big Bang, leaving behind a universe made 149 00:06:43.810 --> 00:06:46.450 mostly of normal matter. One of the study's 150 00:06:46.450 --> 00:06:48.770 authors, Zoya Villari from Ohio State 151 00:06:48.770 --> 00:06:51.050 University and the NUMMI Off Axis V 152 00:06:51.050 --> 00:06:53.050 appearance or NOVA experiment says 153 00:06:53.050 --> 00:06:55.250 understanding neutrinos can answer key 154 00:06:55.250 --> 00:06:57.090 questions about the evolution of the 155 00:06:57.090 --> 00:06:59.920 universe. In an effort to better understand 156 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.520 the shape shifting behaviour of neutrino 157 00:07:02.520 --> 00:07:04.440 oscillation, the NOVA experiment in the 158 00:07:04.440 --> 00:07:06.800 United States, together with the T2K 159 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.400 experiment in Japan, have combined forces to 160 00:07:09.400 --> 00:07:11.720 shoot beams of neutrino particles over 161 00:07:11.720 --> 00:07:14.440 hundreds of kilometres, measuring how their 162 00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:16.800 flavours change throughout their journey. 163 00:07:17.280 --> 00:07:19.200 Despite having similar goals, the two 164 00:07:19.200 --> 00:07:21.300 experiments used very different neutrino uh 165 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:23.440 energies and they studied the oscillations 166 00:07:23.440 --> 00:07:26.430 over different distances. NOVA sent a beam 167 00:07:26.430 --> 00:07:28.590 of muon neutrinos from the US Department of 168 00:07:28.590 --> 00:07:30.470 Energy's Fermi National Accelerator 169 00:07:30.470 --> 00:07:32.790 Laboratory Fermilab near Chicago to a 170 00:07:32.790 --> 00:07:35.230 detector in Ash River, Minnesota. And the 171 00:07:35.230 --> 00:07:37.630 T2K experiment sent their muon 172 00:07:37.630 --> 00:07:40.190 neutrinos from the east coast of Japan across 173 00:07:40.190 --> 00:07:42.350 the country to a detector in the mountains of 174 00:07:42.350 --> 00:07:45.190 western Japan. Valeri says 175 00:07:45.190 --> 00:07:47.110 while both groups goals were the same, 176 00:07:47.190 --> 00:07:49.430 differences in experiment design adds more 177 00:07:49.430 --> 00:07:51.390 information when the data is all pooled 178 00:07:51.390 --> 00:07:54.340 together. While this new study, reported 179 00:07:54.340 --> 00:07:56.060 in the journal Nature, builds on previous 180 00:07:56.060 --> 00:07:57.780 work that found tiny but still very 181 00:07:57.780 --> 00:07:59.780 consequential differences in neutrino mass 182 00:07:59.780 --> 00:08:01.700 for each type, researchers are looking for 183 00:08:01.700 --> 00:08:04.100 deeper hints that neutrinos operate outside 184 00:08:04.260 --> 00:08:06.340 the standard laws of particle physics. 185 00:08:06.820 --> 00:08:09.260 One such question is whether neutrinos and 186 00:08:09.260 --> 00:08:10.940 their antimatter counterparts behave 187 00:08:10.940 --> 00:08:12.980 differently, a phenomenon called charge 188 00:08:12.980 --> 00:08:15.820 parity violation. Neutrinos are a 189 00:08:15.820 --> 00:08:18.020 fascinating if difficult to study subject, 190 00:08:18.020 --> 00:08:20.510 and this look at the history of neutrinos 191 00:08:20.510 --> 00:08:22.870 with Dr. Don Lincoln from Fermilab. 192 00:08:22.870 --> 00:08:25.550 The transcript includes various speakers, but the main i: The subatomic world is full of all sorts of 193 00:08:25.550 --> 00:08:28.030 unfamiliar particles with names like quarks, 194 00:08:28.030 --> 00:08:29.670 which is not the sound that an Australian 195 00:08:29.670 --> 00:08:32.510 duck makes to bosons, which isn't a clown 196 00:08:32.510 --> 00:08:34.549 particle. Each have their respective 197 00:08:34.549 --> 00:08:37.070 personalities and behaviours. However, one of 198 00:08:37.070 --> 00:08:38.990 the particles is particularly curious. 199 00:08:39.390 --> 00:08:41.390 This class of particles is called the 200 00:08:41.390 --> 00:08:44.190 neutrinos. Neutrinos are the 201 00:08:44.190 --> 00:08:46.310 ghosts of the subatomic world, they interact 202 00:08:46.310 --> 00:08:48.110 less than any of the other known particles, 203 00:08:48.750 --> 00:08:50.790 Even though we are constantly bombarded by 204 00:08:50.790 --> 00:08:53.230 them. In fact, something like 650 205 00:08:53.470 --> 00:08:55.390 trillion of them Are hitting you every 206 00:08:55.390 --> 00:08:57.670 second. It took 30 years to prove that they 207 00:08:57.670 --> 00:09:00.110 exist at all. So let me tell you their story. 208 00:09:01.390 --> 00:09:03.670 To start with, we need to go back to 1930, 209 00:09:03.670 --> 00:09:05.950 when they were first proposed. It turned out 210 00:09:05.950 --> 00:09:07.430 that there was a maddening little problem 211 00:09:07.430 --> 00:09:09.950 With a kind of radioactive decay called beta 212 00:09:09.950 --> 00:09:12.800 decay. Beta decay is when an 213 00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:15.120 atomic nucleus Emits an electron, and the 214 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:17.240 nucleus changes from one element to another. 215 00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:19.840 This is kind of like the alchemist's dream of 216 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:21.800 changing lead into gold. Although the actual 217 00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:24.400 elements were different at the time, the 218 00:09:24.400 --> 00:09:26.480 emitted electrons Were called beta particles, 219 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.400 which is where the decay got its name. The 220 00:09:29.400 --> 00:09:31.080 problem was that when the energy of the 221 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.560 original nucleus Was compared To the combined 222 00:09:33.560 --> 00:09:35.200 energy of the daughter nucleus and the 223 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:38.000 electron, the books didn't balance. After 224 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.120 the decay, energy was missing. 225 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:43.840 Since one of the most dearly held ideas of 226 00:09:43.840 --> 00:09:45.720 physics Is that energy can't be created or 227 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:48.240 destroyed, the observation of the loss of 228 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:50.360 energy in beta decay Sends the research world 229 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:53.000 into a tizzy. Lots of ideas were 230 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:55.280 considered, including the possibility that 231 00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:57.120 perhaps in the quantum world, that energy 232 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:00.080 could disappear. In 233 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:03.000 1930, physicist Wolfgang Pauli Came up 234 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:04.720 with the idea that the reason that the energy 235 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.190 was missing Was that because there was an 236 00:10:07.190 --> 00:10:09.910 unobserved particle emitted in beta decay. 237 00:10:10.310 --> 00:10:12.190 If that was true, the unobserved particle 238 00:10:12.190 --> 00:10:14.430 could carry away the energy, and the mystery 239 00:10:14.430 --> 00:10:16.950 was explained. These particles have come to 240 00:10:16.950 --> 00:10:19.750 be called neutrinos. There are four 241 00:10:19.750 --> 00:10:22.390 known forces. Two familiar ones Called 242 00:10:22.390 --> 00:10:25.350 gravity and electromagnetism, and two ones 243 00:10:25.350 --> 00:10:26.990 that aren't familiar, Called the strong and 244 00:10:26.990 --> 00:10:29.910 weak nuclear forces. Neutrinos 245 00:10:29.910 --> 00:10:31.310 do not interact with the strong and 246 00:10:31.310 --> 00:10:33.910 electromagnetic forces. We know that because 247 00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:36.150 if they did, they'd be very easy to see. 248 00:10:36.710 --> 00:10:39.070 Neutrinos do experience the weak nuclear 249 00:10:39.070 --> 00:10:42.070 force and gravity. Of the two, the weak force 250 00:10:42.070 --> 00:10:44.910 is the stronger of the two by far. For 251 00:10:44.910 --> 00:10:47.270 all practical purposes, Neutrinos interact 252 00:10:47.270 --> 00:10:50.150 Only via the weak nuclear force, and the 253 00:10:50.150 --> 00:10:52.590 weak nuclear force is aptly named. To give 254 00:10:52.590 --> 00:10:54.430 you a sense of how weak it is, Let me give 255 00:10:54.430 --> 00:10:56.910 you an example. Neutrinos originate from 256 00:10:56.910 --> 00:10:59.190 nuclear reactions M and the biggest nuclear 257 00:10:59.190 --> 00:11:01.990 reactor around is the sun. The sun emits 258 00:11:01.990 --> 00:11:03.870 so many neutrinos that, even though that is 259 00:11:03.870 --> 00:11:06.830 about 93 million miles away, something 260 00:11:06.830 --> 00:11:09.830 like 650 trillion neutrinos from 261 00:11:09.830 --> 00:11:11.390 the sun Hit you every second. 262 00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:14.910 So suppose you wanted to shield yourself from 263 00:11:14.910 --> 00:11:17.550 that steady barrage of neutrinos. How would 264 00:11:17.550 --> 00:11:20.190 you do that? Well, if you took a huge block 265 00:11:20.190 --> 00:11:22.350 of solid lead that extended from the nearest 266 00:11:22.350 --> 00:11:24.670 star, and I'm not talking about the Sun, I'm 267 00:11:24.670 --> 00:11:26.470 talking about Alpha Centauri, which is about 268 00:11:26.470 --> 00:11:29.290 4, 5 light years away, you'd be able to block 269 00:11:29.290 --> 00:11:31.130 something like half the neutrinos from the 270 00:11:31.130 --> 00:11:34.090 Sun. If five light years of 271 00:11:34.090 --> 00:11:36.330 solid lead has such a poor shield, then there 272 00:11:36.330 --> 00:11:38.250 is no way you can stop them. Even if you use 273 00:11:38.250 --> 00:11:40.530 the entire Earth as your protection, most 274 00:11:40.530 --> 00:11:42.530 neutrinos blow right through the planet just 275 00:11:42.530 --> 00:11:45.050 like it's not even there. Neutrinos really 276 00:11:45.050 --> 00:11:46.290 don't interact very much. 277 00:11:47.890 --> 00:11:50.490 So how did we detect them? Since neutrinos 278 00:11:50.490 --> 00:11:52.770 are emitted from nuclear interactions, one 279 00:11:52.770 --> 00:11:54.810 early idea was to put a neutrino detector 280 00:11:54.810 --> 00:11:56.130 near a nuclear detonation. 281 00:11:56.610 --> 00:11:58.570 However, that idea was quickly nixed as 282 00:11:58.570 --> 00:12:01.450 being, well, unnecessarily dramatic. So no 283 00:12:01.450 --> 00:12:03.650 bomb. Instead, in 284 00:12:03.650 --> 00:12:06.170 1955, physicists put a neutrino 285 00:12:06.170 --> 00:12:08.330 detector near a nuclear power plant and 286 00:12:08.330 --> 00:12:10.850 basically turned the plant on and off, on. 287 00:12:10.850 --> 00:12:13.330 And the detector saw more neutrinos off. And 288 00:12:13.330 --> 00:12:15.730 it saw less on and off, on and off. 289 00:12:15.890 --> 00:12:17.570 That's, uh, essentially all it took. 290 00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:21.220 In the last half century and more, neutrinos 291 00:12:21.220 --> 00:12:23.060 have been studied in great detail. There is 292 00:12:23.060 --> 00:12:25.780 no longer any question of their existence. We 293 00:12:25.780 --> 00:12:27.860 have observed them from many nuclear reactors 294 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:29.780 and can even generate beams of them and shoot 295 00:12:29.780 --> 00:12:31.780 them hundreds of miles through the Earth to 296 00:12:31.780 --> 00:12:34.260 distant detectors. We have seen neutrinos 297 00:12:34.260 --> 00:12:35.900 that were created in distant supernovae. 298 00:12:35.980 --> 00:12:38.020 We have even observed neutrinos emitted from 299 00:12:38.020 --> 00:12:39.980 the radioactive material inside the Earth. 300 00:12:40.380 --> 00:12:42.700 Neutrinos are now familiar denizens of the 301 00:12:42.700 --> 00:12:44.830 particle world. While the original idea of 302 00:12:44.830 --> 00:12:46.350 neutrinos supposed that there was only a 303 00:12:46.350 --> 00:12:48.550 single kind of neutrino, it turns out that 304 00:12:48.550 --> 00:12:50.630 there are actually three distinct variants. 305 00:12:51.350 --> 00:12:53.150 One class of neutrino is associated with 306 00:12:53.150 --> 00:12:55.310 electrons and is called the electron type 307 00:12:55.310 --> 00:12:58.030 neutrino. The other two kinds of neutrinos 308 00:12:58.030 --> 00:13:00.110 are associated with cousins of the electron, 309 00:13:00.110 --> 00:13:03.030 the muon and the tau. Accordingly, these 310 00:13:03.030 --> 00:13:05.590 other types are called muon neutrinos and tau 311 00:13:05.590 --> 00:13:08.390 neutrinos. Scientists use the lowercase 312 00:13:08.390 --> 00:13:11.090 Greek letter nuke to indicate a neutrino with 313 00:13:11.090 --> 00:13:13.170 a subscript to tell you what kind it is. 314 00:13:14.450 --> 00:13:16.490 The way scientists discovered that there were 315 00:13:16.490 --> 00:13:18.770 three different kinds of neutrinos is that 316 00:13:18.770 --> 00:13:20.930 neutrinos seem to remember their origins. 317 00:13:21.570 --> 00:13:24.450 For instance, an experiment in 1962 created 318 00:13:24.450 --> 00:13:27.370 neutrinos in tandem with a muon. If 319 00:13:27.370 --> 00:13:29.290 one of those neutrinos was then collided into 320 00:13:29.290 --> 00:13:32.090 an atomic nucleus, only muons were generated 321 00:13:32.090 --> 00:13:34.610 in the Collision never electrons and never 322 00:13:34.610 --> 00:13:37.490 tau particles. The neutrino remembered how it 323 00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:40.250 was made. This observation led to a 324 00:13:40.250 --> 00:13:42.050 Nobel Prize in 1988 325 00:13:43.250 --> 00:13:44.970 with the observation that neutrinos have 326 00:13:44.970 --> 00:13:47.130 distinct types. Scientists thought that they 327 00:13:47.130 --> 00:13:49.090 understood neutrinos reasonably well. 328 00:13:49.650 --> 00:13:51.970 However, they continued to study them. In 329 00:13:51.970 --> 00:13:54.330 1964, one scientist wanted to study 330 00:13:54.330 --> 00:13:57.130 neutrinos originated in the biggest nuclear 331 00:13:57.130 --> 00:13:58.930 reactor around the sun. 332 00:14:00.450 --> 00:14:03.370 Raymond Davis was a chemist by trade. He knew 333 00:14:03.370 --> 00:14:05.330 that neutrinos could interact with chlorine 334 00:14:05.330 --> 00:14:08.130 and make argon. He also knew that neutrinos 335 00:14:08.130 --> 00:14:10.290 interacted very weakly and he'd need a huge 336 00:14:10.290 --> 00:14:13.050 number of chlorine atoms to make it work. So 337 00:14:13.050 --> 00:14:15.050 he took a huge vat of 338 00:14:15.050 --> 00:14:17.610 perchloroethylene, which is just a scientific 339 00:14:17.610 --> 00:14:19.890 name for dry cleaning fluid. The vat 340 00:14:19.890 --> 00:14:22.690 contained 100,000 gallons of 341 00:14:22.690 --> 00:14:24.970 liquid. That's about the size of an Olympic 342 00:14:24.970 --> 00:14:27.410 sized swimming pool. He calculated that for 343 00:14:27.410 --> 00:14:29.490 every week of operation, that he could expect 344 00:14:29.490 --> 00:14:31.810 to create 10 atoms of argon. 345 00:14:32.130 --> 00:14:35.030 Yeah, you heard me right. 10 atoms. 1, 2, 346 00:14:35.091 --> 00:14:37.810 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10. 347 00:14:39.010 --> 00:14:40.610 Now that number should have blown your mind. 348 00:14:40.850 --> 00:14:43.730 His vat contained about 9 million million 349 00:14:43.970 --> 00:14:46.810 million million million atoms of 350 00:14:46.810 --> 00:14:49.770 chlorine. And 10 of them should be 351 00:14:49.770 --> 00:14:52.170 converted to argon. This just sounds 352 00:14:52.170 --> 00:14:54.050 impossible. And yet it turned out that Davis 353 00:14:54.050 --> 00:14:57.000 could do just that. So what 354 00:14:57.000 --> 00:14:59.400 did he find? Well, it turns out that he 355 00:14:59.400 --> 00:15:01.640 didn't find the ten atoms he expected. He 356 00:15:01.640 --> 00:15:04.560 found only three. The easiest explanation 357 00:15:04.560 --> 00:15:06.240 was that either the prediction or the 358 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:08.840 measurement was wrong. And yet many follow on 359 00:15:08.840 --> 00:15:10.920 experiments confirmed his results. He was 360 00:15:10.920 --> 00:15:13.040 detecting fewer neutrinos than expected. 361 00:15:13.760 --> 00:15:15.800 This came to be called the solar neutrino 362 00:15:15.800 --> 00:15:18.800 deficit. Now, uh, you should be forgiven 363 00:15:18.800 --> 00:15:21.440 if you believe that somehow the entire field 364 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:23.170 of neutrino physics made a huge mistake. 365 00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:26.400 However, another class of experiments told a 366 00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:28.880 similar tale. Another source of 367 00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:31.400 neutrinos came from cosmic rays, which is the 368 00:15:31.400 --> 00:15:33.480 constant pelting of high energy protons from 369 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:35.440 the deepest space slamming into the 370 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:36.120 atmosphere. 371 00:15:36.680 --> 00:15:39.239 Because of how the cosmic rays interact, each 372 00:15:39.239 --> 00:15:41.560 electron type neutrino should be accompanied 373 00:15:41.560 --> 00:15:44.480 by two muon type neutrinos. While the 374 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.240 solar neutrino deficit could have been due to 375 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:48.480 improper measurement or calculation, it is 376 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.480 very difficult to imagine how neutrinos from 377 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:52.850 cosmic rays could occur in any, any ratio 378 00:15:52.850 --> 00:15:55.730 other than one electron type to two muon 379 00:15:55.730 --> 00:15:58.170 types. So what was measured? 380 00:15:58.730 --> 00:16:00.370 Well, different experiments observed 381 00:16:00.370 --> 00:16:02.170 different results, but it was generally true 382 00:16:02.170 --> 00:16:03.890 that there were fewer muon neutrinos than 383 00:16:03.890 --> 00:16:06.690 expected. Another mystery had appeared, this 384 00:16:06.690 --> 00:16:08.730 one called the atmospheric neutrino problem. 385 00:16:09.770 --> 00:16:12.570 In the mid to late 1950s, Italian born 386 00:16:12.570 --> 00:16:14.570 physicist Bruno Pontecorvo 387 00:16:15.050 --> 00:16:17.610 hypothesised that it would be possible for 388 00:16:17.610 --> 00:16:19.130 the different flavours of neutrinos to 389 00:16:19.130 --> 00:16:21.620 oscillate into one another. If the idea was 390 00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.700 true, then a bunch of electron neutrinos 391 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:26.220 could gradually morph into muon neutrinos and 392 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:29.020 then back again to electron neutrinos. At the 393 00:16:29.020 --> 00:16:30.940 time he came up with the idea, only one kind 394 00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:33.060 of neutrino was known to exist. So his 395 00:16:33.060 --> 00:16:35.300 proposed oscillations were of neutrinos into 396 00:16:35.300 --> 00:16:37.700 their antimatter equivalents. However, 397 00:16:38.020 --> 00:16:39.740 we now know that the right way to think about 398 00:16:39.740 --> 00:16:41.540 neutrino oscillations is between the three 399 00:16:41.540 --> 00:16:44.340 distinct types. The 400 00:16:44.340 --> 00:16:46.020 first compelling evidence for neutrino 401 00:16:46.020 --> 00:16:48.930 oscillations came in 1998 using the Super 402 00:16:48.930 --> 00:16:50.970 Kamiokande experiment in Japan. 403 00:16:51.690 --> 00:16:54.170 This detector is a huge underground cavern 404 00:16:54.170 --> 00:16:56.930 filled with 50,000 tons of 405 00:16:56.930 --> 00:16:58.970 water surrounded by detectors called 406 00:16:58.970 --> 00:17:01.730 phototubes. Rare neutrinos would 407 00:17:01.730 --> 00:17:03.410 interact in the water and give off a blink of 408 00:17:03.410 --> 00:17:05.570 light. Using that blink of light, you could 409 00:17:05.570 --> 00:17:07.450 identify the trajectory of the neutrino 410 00:17:08.650 --> 00:17:10.850 by separating it out. Neutrinos created the 411 00:17:10.850 --> 00:17:13.530 atmosphere directly above, which was about 12 412 00:17:13.530 --> 00:17:15.780 miles away, from neutrinos created on the 413 00:17:15.780 --> 00:17:17.940 other side of the Earth, which was about 414 00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:19.140 8,000 miles away. 415 00:17:19.140 --> 00:17:21.500 They proved that it was the neutrinos that 416 00:17:21.500 --> 00:17:23.420 travelled a large distance that had changed 417 00:17:23.420 --> 00:17:26.380 their identity most. The snow experiment 418 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:29.180 in a mine deep under Sudbury, Ontario, 419 00:17:29.260 --> 00:17:31.380 clinched it. Neutrinos were changing their 420 00:17:31.380 --> 00:17:34.140 identity. In the past decade, 421 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:35.860 scientists have studied neutrino oscillation 422 00:17:35.860 --> 00:17:37.780 using beams of neutrinos made at particle 423 00:17:37.780 --> 00:17:39.940 physics laboratories. The Fermilab 424 00:17:39.940 --> 00:17:42.090 accelerator near Chicago, the CERN 425 00:17:42.090 --> 00:17:44.450 accelerator near Geneva, Switzerland, and the 426 00:17:44.450 --> 00:17:47.130 KEK accelerator in Japan all fire 427 00:17:47.130 --> 00:17:49.050 beams of neutrinos through the Earth to 428 00:17:49.050 --> 00:17:50.770 targets hundreds of miles away. 429 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:53.050 These experiments have made tremendous 430 00:17:53.050 --> 00:17:55.210 headway in understanding the phenomenon of 431 00:17:55.210 --> 00:17:58.170 neutrino oscillation. However, there remain 432 00:17:58.170 --> 00:18:00.570 significant questions in the details of 433 00:18:00.570 --> 00:18:01.570 neutrino oscillations. 434 00:18:01.650 --> 00:18:03.490 Stuart Gary: And in that report from the United States 435 00:18:03.490 --> 00:18:05.050 Department of Energy's Fermi National 436 00:18:05.050 --> 00:18:07.330 Accelerator, we heard from Dr. Don Lincoln 437 00:18:07.510 --> 00:18:10.390 from Fermilab. This is space, time. 438 00:18:25.350 --> 00:18:27.390 And time. Now to take another brief look at 439 00:18:27.390 --> 00:18:28.910 some of the other stories making news in 440 00:18:28.910 --> 00:18:31.870 science this week with the Science report. A 441 00:18:31.870 --> 00:18:34.310 new study claims kids from socioeconomically 442 00:18:34.310 --> 00:18:36.790 disadvantaged and immigrant families are more 443 00:18:36.790 --> 00:18:39.190 likely to be diagnosed with autism spectrum 444 00:18:39.330 --> 00:18:41.650 disorder. The findings reported in the 445 00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:43.570 Journal of the American Medical association 446 00:18:43.650 --> 00:18:45.570 are, uh, based on the Canadian study of over 447 00:18:45.570 --> 00:18:47.730 2.3 million children born between 448 00:18:47.730 --> 00:18:50.490 2002 and 2020. The 449 00:18:50.490 --> 00:18:52.450 authors found the rates of autism were 450 00:18:52.450 --> 00:18:53.850 highest in kids from the most 451 00:18:53.850 --> 00:18:56.050 socioeconomically disadvantaged, lowest 452 00:18:56.050 --> 00:18:58.210 income neighbourhoods and born to immigrant 453 00:18:58.210 --> 00:19:00.610 mothers, and these differences worsened over 454 00:19:00.610 --> 00:19:03.490 time. Kids from these areas were also more 455 00:19:03.490 --> 00:19:05.410 likely to have been exposed to diabetes 456 00:19:05.410 --> 00:19:07.370 during their mother's pregnancy, as well as 457 00:19:07.370 --> 00:19:09.250 severe pregnancy complications and 458 00:19:09.250 --> 00:19:11.590 prematurity, which the authors may have 459 00:19:11.590 --> 00:19:13.070 contributed to these differences. 460 00:19:14.910 --> 00:19:17.110 A new study warns that many of the world's 461 00:19:17.110 --> 00:19:19.830 major cities are uh, sinking. The findings 462 00:19:19.830 --> 00:19:21.830 reported in the journal Nature are based on 463 00:19:21.830 --> 00:19:23.990 high resolution satellite data collected 464 00:19:23.990 --> 00:19:26.830 between 2014 and 2023 to measure land 465 00:19:26.830 --> 00:19:29.390 movement across 465 cities in 466 00:19:29.390 --> 00:19:32.390 107 countries. The authors found that 467 00:19:32.390 --> 00:19:35.190 parts of Mexico City, Bandung in Indonesia 468 00:19:35.190 --> 00:19:37.670 and Isfahan in Iran were experiencing the 469 00:19:37.670 --> 00:19:40.320 most sinking. Their authors also looked at 470 00:19:40.320 --> 00:19:42.360 multiple cities across Australia, including 471 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:44.400 Sydney, Adelaide, Brisbane, Melbourne, 472 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.320 Newcastle and Perth, but found none of the 473 00:19:46.320 --> 00:19:48.480 Aussie cities came close to the likes of 474 00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:49.880 Mexico and Indonesia. 475 00:19:51.400 --> 00:19:53.760 A University of Melbourne led study has 476 00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:55.840 identified new insights and evidence that 477 00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:58.040 could help significantly mitigate the fast 478 00:19:58.040 --> 00:20:00.360 rising climate impact of lithium ion 479 00:20:00.360 --> 00:20:03.200 batteries. The study's modelling found that 480 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.120 by 2050 demand for lithium ion batteries used 481 00:20:06.120 --> 00:20:08.480 in electric cars, vans, buses, trucks and 482 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.020 battery energy storage systems could rise 20 483 00:20:11.020 --> 00:20:13.620 fold, leading to a tenfold increase in their 484 00:20:13.620 --> 00:20:16.620 supply chain greenhouse gas emissions. The 485 00:20:16.620 --> 00:20:18.700 author's report in the journal One Earth also 486 00:20:18.700 --> 00:20:21.300 identified ways to reduce global lithium ion 487 00:20:21.300 --> 00:20:23.620 battery emissions on um, par with the annual 488 00:20:23.620 --> 00:20:25.460 emissions of the European Union. 489 00:20:26.980 --> 00:20:29.940 A new study suggests that a man laid to rest 490 00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:32.420 in a Roman sarcophagus in Westminster Abbey 491 00:20:32.420 --> 00:20:34.580 isn't who he's supposed to be. In 492 00:20:34.580 --> 00:20:37.380 1869 a skeleton was found inside 493 00:20:37.380 --> 00:20:39.500 the limestone sarcophagus which bore an 494 00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:41.780 inscription to Valerius Amandius, a wealthy 495 00:20:41.780 --> 00:20:43.800 Briton who lived in the city around the years 496 00:20:43.800 --> 00:20:45.040 300 to 400. 497 00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:47.600 However, the lid of the sarcophagus was 498 00:20:47.600 --> 00:20:49.640 carved with a Latin cross from the 10th or 499 00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:51.840 11th century, leaving the true identity of 500 00:20:51.840 --> 00:20:54.000 the skeleton inside somewhat of a mystery 501 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:57.040 now. A new analysis of the remains reported 502 00:20:57.120 --> 00:20:58.960 in the Journal of the British Archaeological 503 00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:01.400 association showed the deceased man was 504 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:04.400 between 35 and 49 years old, around 505 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:06.880 5 foot 9 inches in height, with carbon dating 506 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:08.880 of the bones suggesting that he lived between 507 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:11.520 the years 987 and 1052. 508 00:21:12.300 --> 00:21:14.380 Archaeologists working for Westminster Abbey 509 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:16.380 believe the burns belonged to a high ranking 510 00:21:16.380 --> 00:21:18.780 mediaeval monk, Alweg, who was an abbot at 511 00:21:18.780 --> 00:21:21.460 the abbey and died around 1020 or possibly 512 00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:23.420 successor Woolnorth, who died in the year 513 00:21:23.420 --> 00:21:26.420 1049. A 514 00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:28.580 psychologist has identified three mental 515 00:21:28.580 --> 00:21:31.020 triggers that may help explain many so called 516 00:21:31.020 --> 00:21:33.820 ghost encounters. Dr. Melissa Maffeo 517 00:21:33.820 --> 00:21:36.420 says pure research suggests some 18% of 518 00:21:36.420 --> 00:21:38.780 American adults Claim to have seen ghosts. 519 00:21:39.370 --> 00:21:41.570 The sceptics. Timms Mendham says she stops 520 00:21:41.570 --> 00:21:43.610 short of declaring that ghosts aren't real, 521 00:21:43.610 --> 00:21:46.250 but lays out three specific factors that make 522 00:21:46.250 --> 00:21:48.690 some people far more prone to believe that 523 00:21:48.690 --> 00:21:49.690 they've encountered one. 524 00:21:49.690 --> 00:21:51.930 Tim Mendham: You come down to a basic idea. Is our ghosts 525 00:21:51.930 --> 00:21:53.770 real? And that might be an issue as well, 526 00:21:53.770 --> 00:21:55.370 where people see that there's a person who's 527 00:21:55.370 --> 00:21:57.290 coming up with particular ideas of what might 528 00:21:57.290 --> 00:21:59.410 influence people to believe that the ghost is 529 00:21:59.410 --> 00:22:01.690 real. The first one they suggest is that EMF 530 00:22:01.690 --> 00:22:03.770 machines, electromagnetic frequencies, are 531 00:22:03.770 --> 00:22:05.650 the machines that pick up to magnetic fields. 532 00:22:05.650 --> 00:22:07.450 I think is the actual term, excuse me, that 533 00:22:07.690 --> 00:22:09.890 pick up signals from wherever and it goes 534 00:22:09.890 --> 00:22:11.330 click, click, click on your. On your. Little 535 00:22:11.330 --> 00:22:12.530 like a Geiger counter thing. 536 00:22:12.530 --> 00:22:14.490 Stuart Gary: Yeah, we call them radios in my business. 537 00:22:15.530 --> 00:22:17.330 Tim Mendham: Well, it has to have a dial that swings 538 00:22:17.330 --> 00:22:19.250 around like a little all by itself. The 539 00:22:19.250 --> 00:22:21.090 answer, this person suggests is that these 540 00:22:21.090 --> 00:22:22.530 machines themselves are putting out 541 00:22:22.530 --> 00:22:25.530 frequencies which affects people's ability to 542 00:22:25.770 --> 00:22:28.290 assess a situation like infrasound, low 543 00:22:28.290 --> 00:22:30.450 sound, various sort of different types of 544 00:22:30.450 --> 00:22:32.850 sound frequencies that give people the sense 545 00:22:32.850 --> 00:22:35.690 of something, uneasiness, if you like, in an 546 00:22:35.690 --> 00:22:37.970 environment. And that therefore, rather than 547 00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:40.470 the machine reacting to a ghost presence, 548 00:22:40.470 --> 00:22:42.710 it's the machine is giving out a frequency 549 00:22:42.710 --> 00:22:44.710 that makes people think of ghosts. And 550 00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:46.070 certainly there are stories of interest, 551 00:22:46.310 --> 00:22:48.470 sound giving people sort of weird feelings, 552 00:22:48.520 --> 00:22:51.070 uh, unsure if you like. So yeah, maybe that 553 00:22:51.070 --> 00:22:53.110 is true. I don't know how effective that is. 554 00:22:53.190 --> 00:22:55.349 Then there's the. What's called the brain's 555 00:22:55.349 --> 00:22:58.310 wiring, the ability to track what's in the 556 00:22:58.310 --> 00:23:00.280 body, what's outside the body called, uh, 557 00:23:00.280 --> 00:23:02.950 temporoparietal junction. Try and say that 558 00:23:02.950 --> 00:23:05.350 one quickly. And that basically allows you to 559 00:23:05.350 --> 00:23:07.150 track where our body ends and where the 560 00:23:07.150 --> 00:23:08.790 outside world begins. And it's saying if 561 00:23:08.790 --> 00:23:10.110 there's a glitch in that, you're having 562 00:23:10.110 --> 00:23:11.770 trouble sort of differentiating between you 563 00:23:11.770 --> 00:23:13.160 and what's out there in the environment. Now, 564 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:15.130 uh, that might give you an eerie sense that 565 00:23:15.130 --> 00:23:17.530 someone or something is present. Because you 566 00:23:17.530 --> 00:23:19.050 can't really differentiate. Perhaps with you 567 00:23:19.050 --> 00:23:20.130 that's present, you can't really 568 00:23:20.130 --> 00:23:21.850 differentiate between the two. The third one 569 00:23:21.850 --> 00:23:24.450 that they suggest is a possible reason why 570 00:23:24.450 --> 00:23:26.690 some people see ghosts is personality. 571 00:23:26.690 --> 00:23:29.410 Well, yeah, some people are more disposed 572 00:23:29.410 --> 00:23:31.370 towards believing in supernatural. The 573 00:23:31.370 --> 00:23:33.810 paranormal is for whatever reasons, societal, 574 00:23:33.810 --> 00:23:36.210 environmental, personal, mental, sort of 575 00:23:36.210 --> 00:23:37.770 whatever they have. And that some people are 576 00:23:37.770 --> 00:23:39.130 not. Well, you're starting off with that 577 00:23:39.130 --> 00:23:40.970 belief anyway. That idea that some people 578 00:23:40.970 --> 00:23:43.010 tend to want to believe and some people don't 579 00:23:43.010 --> 00:23:44.470 know necessarily want to believe. The level 580 00:23:44.470 --> 00:23:46.110 of evidence required, that's nothing 581 00:23:46.110 --> 00:23:47.790 particularly exciting about that. I mean, 582 00:23:47.790 --> 00:23:49.310 sure, there are probably a lot of reasons why 583 00:23:49.310 --> 00:23:51.150 people believe they see ghosts, and I think 584 00:23:51.150 --> 00:23:52.870 the personality is probably the the biggest 585 00:23:52.870 --> 00:23:55.030 one. Their inclination to believe is probably 586 00:23:55.030 --> 00:23:56.190 a really good, pretty good reason. 587 00:23:56.190 --> 00:23:58.750 Stuart Gary: That's the sceptics. Tim Mendham and this is 588 00:23:58.750 --> 00:23:59.549 Space Time. 589 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:18.080 And that's the show for now. 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