This episode is brought to you with the support of NordVPN - SpaceTimes official VPN service. When it comes to your online privacy, use the one we use and help support the show. To claim your special SpaceTime bonus deal, visit nordvpn.com/stuartgary or use the coupon code STUARTGARY at checkout.
In this episode of SpaceTime, we delve into groundbreaking revelations that challenge our understanding of cosmic events and planetary formation.
New Insights on the Milky Way and Andromeda Collision
Recent studies utilizing data from NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and the European Space Agency's Gaia spacecraft cast doubt on the long-anticipated collision between our Milky Way and the Andromeda Galaxy. New simulations indicate only a 2% probability of a merger occurring within the next 3.7 to 5 billion years, suggesting that both galaxies may continue to evolve largely unperturbed for a much longer period. We explore the implications of these findings and the variables that have altered previous predictions about our galactic future.
Understanding Seismic Wave Acceleration in Earth's D Layer
A fascinating new study sheds light on the behavior of seismic waves deep within the Earth. Researchers have discovered that the unique crystal structure of minerals in the D layer, located near the core-mantle boundary, influences the acceleration of seismic waves. This breakthrough not only clarifies the mystery behind seismic wave behavior but also provides insights into the dynamics at play in the Earth's depths.
Discovery of Embryonic Exoplanets Using Advanced Techniques
Astronomers have unveiled a new technique that has successfully identified five new embryonic exoplanets, offering a glimpse into their early formation stages. Utilizing the ALMA radio telescope, researchers can peer through dense protoplanetary disks to detect these young planets, which are forming rapidly in dynamic environments. This revolutionary method opens new avenues for understanding planetary evolution and the processes that govern the birth of new worlds.
www.spacetimewithstuartgary.com
✍️ Episode References
Nature Astronomy
https://www.nature.com/natureastronomy/
Communications Earth and Environment
https://www.nature.com/commsenv/
Astrophysical Journal Letters
https://iopscience.iop.org/journal/0004-637X
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/spacetime-space-astronomy--2458531/support.
00:00 This is Space Time Series 28, Episode 69 for broadcast on 9 June 2025
01:00 New insights on the Milky Way and Andromeda collision
12:15 Understanding seismic wave acceleration in Earth's D layer
22:30 Discovery of embryonic exoplanets using advanced techniques
30:00 Science report: AI systems refusing to turn off
00:00:00 --> 00:00:02 Stuart Gary: This is space Time Series 28, episode
00:00:02 --> 00:00:05 69, for broadcast on the 9th of June,
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 2025. Coming up on Space Time,
00:00:08 --> 00:00:11 doubt cast on the impending galactic collision between the
00:00:11 --> 00:00:14 Milky Way and Andromeda. A new study
00:00:14 --> 00:00:16 explains why seismic waves suddenly
00:00:16 --> 00:00:19 accelerate deep inside the Earth. And
00:00:19 --> 00:00:22 the new technique discovers five new
00:00:22 --> 00:00:25 embryonic planets. All that and more coming
00:00:25 --> 00:00:26 up on, Space Time.
00:00:27 --> 00:00:30 Voice Over Guy: Welcome to Space Time with Stuart Gary
00:00:47 --> 00:00:50 Stuart Gary: A new study is casting doubt on the timing of the
00:00:50 --> 00:00:52 long expected collision between the Milky Way and the
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 Andromeda Galaxy, M M31. The
00:00:55 --> 00:00:58 findings, reported in the journal Nature Astronomy, are based
00:00:58 --> 00:01:01 on new data from NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and
00:01:01 --> 00:01:04 the European Space Agency's Gaia Space spacecraft.
00:01:04 --> 00:01:07 Astronomers have used the new observations to create fresh
00:01:07 --> 00:01:10 computer simulations showing how these two large
00:01:10 --> 00:01:13 galaxies will evolve over the next 10 billion
00:01:13 --> 00:01:16 years. The two galaxies, which are the largest
00:01:16 --> 00:01:19 in the Local Galactic Group, are currently located some 2
00:01:19 --> 00:01:21 million light years away from each other and are moving
00:01:21 --> 00:01:24 towards a merger at a speed of about 100 kilometers
00:01:24 --> 00:01:27 per second. A collision would be devastating
00:01:27 --> 00:01:30 for the overall structure of both, spiral galaxies.
00:01:30 --> 00:01:33 Although the stars themselves wouldn't collide, there's plenty of space
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 between them. The beautiful spiral arms of the galaxies
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 as a whole would cease to exist, replaced by a
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 spheroidal pile of stars known as an elliptical
00:01:42 --> 00:01:44 galaxy. The authors of the new study ran
00:01:44 --> 00:01:47 100 simulations of both galaxies based
00:01:47 --> 00:01:50 on the new observational data. And for the first
00:01:50 --> 00:01:53 time, this included the effects of the Milky Way's most
00:01:53 --> 00:01:56 massive satellite galaxy, the Large Magellanic
00:01:56 --> 00:01:58 Cloud. As a result, they found only a
00:01:58 --> 00:02:01 2% probability that the galaxies will collide
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 sometime over the next 3.7 to 5 billion
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 years. That's contrary to the previous belief
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 that a galactic collision and the demise of the Milky Way as
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 an independent body was a certainty within that
00:02:12 --> 00:02:15 time frame. In just over half of the simulated
00:02:15 --> 00:02:18 scenarios, the Milky Way and Andromeda experience at least one
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 close encounter before they lose enough orbital energy to
00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 eventually collide and merge. But that's now
00:02:23 --> 00:02:26 likely to happen somewhere between 8 and 10 billion years
00:02:26 --> 00:02:29 from now. And on that timescale, our sun
00:02:29 --> 00:02:32 will have already dropped off the main sequence, having fused all
00:02:32 --> 00:02:35 its hydrogen core into helium, expanded out to become a
00:02:35 --> 00:02:38 red giant, puffed off its outer layers, and ended
00:02:38 --> 00:02:41 up as a white dwarf. Now, in most of
00:02:41 --> 00:02:44 the computer simulation scenarios about the galactic collision
00:02:44 --> 00:02:47 between Andromeda and the Milky Way, it seems they'll pass at
00:02:47 --> 00:02:49 such large distances from each other that they'll continue to
00:02:49 --> 00:02:52 evolve large, largely unperturbed, for a very
00:02:52 --> 00:02:55 long period of time. Although the new research
00:02:55 --> 00:02:58 challenges the previously accepted fate of the Milky Way, the
00:02:58 --> 00:03:01 study's authors admit it's still difficult to make very precise
00:03:01 --> 00:03:04 predictions. The study's lead author, Till Sawala
00:03:04 --> 00:03:07 from the University of Helsinki, emphasized that the new
00:03:07 --> 00:03:10 conclusions don't imply a mistake in early calculations,
00:03:10 --> 00:03:13 rather that the authors are able to include more variables within
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 their simulations. Earlier calculations
00:03:15 --> 00:03:18 focused on the interaction between the Milky Way, Andromeda,
00:03:18 --> 00:03:21 and a third galaxy, the Triangulum. They're the three
00:03:21 --> 00:03:24 largest members of our Local Galactic Group.
00:03:24 --> 00:03:27 Although the Large Magellanic Cloud only has about 15%
00:03:27 --> 00:03:30 the mass of the Milky Way, its gravitational pull,
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 directed perpendicular to the orbit of Andromeda
00:03:32 --> 00:03:35 nevertheless would perturb the Milky Way's motion
00:03:35 --> 00:03:38 sufficiently to significantly reduce the chance of a merger
00:03:38 --> 00:03:41 with Andromeda, Zwalla says. While
00:03:41 --> 00:03:43 earlier studies only considered the most likely value for
00:03:43 --> 00:03:46 each variable, running many thousands of simulations has
00:03:46 --> 00:03:49 allowed the authors to account for all the observable uncertainties.
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 Now, these new results are significant for the fate of
00:03:53 --> 00:03:56 our galaxy. But this new uncertainty about the future
00:03:56 --> 00:03:59 of the Milky Way in Andromeda may not last for long. The
00:03:59 --> 00:04:01 authors are already looking ahead towards new research,
00:04:01 --> 00:04:04 further scenarios, and even more data becoming available.
00:04:05 --> 00:04:08 You see, the Guy Space Telescope will soon be delivering more
00:04:08 --> 00:04:11 precise measurements with some of the most crucial variables within
00:04:11 --> 00:04:13 the galaxies, including the transverse motion of
00:04:13 --> 00:04:16 Andromeda, which is difficult to measure directly.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:19 This is space time still to come,
00:04:19 --> 00:04:22 why seismic waves deep inside the Earth suddenly
00:04:22 --> 00:04:25 accelerate, and the discovery of five new
00:04:25 --> 00:04:28 embryonic planets using a new technique. All that
00:04:28 --> 00:04:30 and more still to come on, space time.
00:04:46 --> 00:04:48 A new study has provided fresh clues about the
00:04:48 --> 00:04:51 mysterious behavior of seismic waves as they traverse
00:04:51 --> 00:04:54 a weird zone deep inside the Earth. A
00:04:54 --> 00:04:57 report in the journal Communications Earth and Environment
00:04:57 --> 00:05:00 has found that the crystal structure of minerals deep in the
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 planet's D layer is accelerating the movement of
00:05:02 --> 00:05:05 seismic waves. The D layer is located
00:05:05 --> 00:05:08 near the Earth's core mantle boundary, some
00:05:08 --> 00:05:11 2 to 3 km beneath the
00:05:11 --> 00:05:14 planet's crust. This region consists of a mixture
00:05:14 --> 00:05:16 of molten rock flowing sort of like honey or
00:05:16 --> 00:05:19 molasses, rather than being either liquid like lava
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 or brittle like solid rock. For more than
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 50 years, scientists have wondered why seismic
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 waves suddenly behave differently in this D layer, with their
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 speed accelerating as if they were traveling through a different
00:05:30 --> 00:05:33 material. Then, in 2004, one
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 of the study's authors, Motohiko Murakami from
00:05:36 --> 00:05:39 Idiot Zurich, discovered that the mineral perovskite, which
00:05:39 --> 00:05:41 dominates the D layer, transforms under extreme
00:05:41 --> 00:05:44 pressures and temperatures into a New min different
00:05:44 --> 00:05:46 mineral, which they've named post perovskite.
00:05:47 --> 00:05:50 Scientists assumed that it was this change which was explaining
00:05:50 --> 00:05:53 the strange acceleration of the seismic waves.
00:05:53 --> 00:05:56 But then, in 2007, Murakami and colleagues
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 found evidence that the phase change of the perovskite
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 alone simply wasn't enough to accelerate the
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 seismic waves. Now, using new
00:06:04 --> 00:06:07 computer models, they've discovered that depending on the
00:06:07 --> 00:06:10 direction in which the prosperovskite crystals are pointing, the
00:06:10 --> 00:06:12 hardness of the mineral changes. It turns out
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 the seismic waves are accelerated only when the crystals
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 of the mineral point in the same direction. The
00:06:18 --> 00:06:21 big question then becomes, what makes these crystals line
00:06:21 --> 00:06:24 up? Well, it seems the answer is
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 solid mantle rock is flowing horizontally along the
00:06:27 --> 00:06:29 lower edge of the Earth's, mantle. Researchers have long
00:06:29 --> 00:06:32 suspected that this movement, a sort of convection like
00:06:32 --> 00:06:35 boiling water, must exist. But they've never been able to
00:06:35 --> 00:06:38 prove it directly. The new computer simulations
00:06:38 --> 00:06:41 developed by Murakami and colleagues have now demonstrated, at
00:06:41 --> 00:06:44 least experimentally, that metal convection of solid rock
00:06:44 --> 00:06:47 is real, and it's occurring at the boundary between the
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 Earth's molten liquid outer core and the mantle above.
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 The discovery not only solves the mystery of the D
00:06:53 --> 00:06:56 layer, but also opens a new window into the dynamics
00:06:56 --> 00:06:58 in the depths of the Earth. This is
00:06:58 --> 00:07:01 space time. Still to come,
00:07:01 --> 00:07:04 astronomers have developed a new technique which has allowed them to
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 identify embryonic planets. And later in the science
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 report, a new study warns that artificial
00:07:10 --> 00:07:13 intelligence is now so smart, it's refusing to
00:07:13 --> 00:07:15 turn itself off, even when instructed to do
00:07:15 --> 00:07:18 so. Looks like Skynet. If not, the Terminator
00:07:18 --> 00:07:21 may well have arrived. All that and more still to
00:07:21 --> 00:07:21 come.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:23 On space time,
00:07:32 --> 00:07:32 foreign
00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 astronomers have developed a new technique which is
00:07:41 --> 00:07:44 allowing them to identify embryonic exoplanets at a
00:07:44 --> 00:07:47 far earlier stage of their development than ever before.
00:07:48 --> 00:07:50 Exoplanets are, planets orbiting stars other than the
00:07:50 --> 00:07:53 Sun. Astronomers have so far discovered well over
00:07:53 --> 00:07:56 5 exoplanets, usually by either
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 the transit method, in which some of the light from a host
00:07:59 --> 00:08:02 star is briefly blocked out by an eclipsing planet, or, or
00:08:02 --> 00:08:05 by the wobble method, in which the host star is being affected
00:08:05 --> 00:08:08 by the gravitational pull of an orbiting planet, resulting
00:08:08 --> 00:08:11 in a slight Doppler shift in the star spectra.
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 Now, a report in the Astrophysical Journal Letters claims the
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 new technique, which uses alma. The Ataccam, a Large
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 Millimeter Submillimeter Array radio telescope in Chile,
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 has successfully discovered evidence of five new
00:08:23 --> 00:08:25 embryonic exoplanets. So young, they're still
00:08:25 --> 00:08:28 growing. The new Advanced Exoalma
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 project imaging technique allowed astronomers to
00:08:31 --> 00:08:34 peer through the thick protoplanetary disks of gas, gas
00:08:34 --> 00:08:37 and dust, that have been obscuring these embryonic planets from view
00:08:37 --> 00:08:40 until now. The study's lead author, Christoph
00:08:40 --> 00:08:43 Pinte from Monash University, says the five newly found
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 planets are, just a few million years old. That's a thousand
00:08:46 --> 00:08:48 times younger than the Earth. Paint says.
00:08:48 --> 00:08:51 Unlike traditional planet hunting methods that look for a young
00:08:51 --> 00:08:54 planet's direct light, EXO ALMA searches for the
00:08:54 --> 00:08:56 effects these planets are having on their surroundings.
00:08:57 --> 00:08:59 He says it's like trying to spot a fish by looking for
00:08:59 --> 00:09:02 ripples in the pond rather than trying to see the fish
00:09:02 --> 00:09:05 itself. It allows astronomers to detect much
00:09:05 --> 00:09:08 younger planets than ever before so they can learn more about
00:09:08 --> 00:09:11 planetary evolution and growth. A key
00:09:11 --> 00:09:14 finding of EXO ALMA is that these planets are forming
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 really quickly in less than a few million years.
00:09:17 --> 00:09:19 And in surprisingly dynamic environments, with lots of
00:09:19 --> 00:09:22 physical mechanisms at play. The EXO
00:09:22 --> 00:09:25 ALMA project is revolutionizing science's
00:09:25 --> 00:09:27 understanding of how planets interact with their natal
00:09:27 --> 00:09:30 environments and evolve over time. By,
00:09:30 --> 00:09:33 uncovering the youngest planets, EXA ALMA is
00:09:33 --> 00:09:36 providing the first clues to unravel these mysteries.
00:09:36 --> 00:09:39 Pinte says the technique he and his team have developed is a
00:09:39 --> 00:09:42 remarkable leap forward in astronomy, opening up light years
00:09:42 --> 00:09:45 of new possibilities for future discoveries.
00:09:45 --> 00:09:48 Christoph Pinte: We're using the alma, interferometer in Chile,
00:09:48 --> 00:09:51 which is a radio telescope. And we're using
00:09:51 --> 00:09:53 ALMA to find very young planets. Because
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 classical technique to find planets like
00:09:56 --> 00:09:59 transit or radial velocity cannot be used for young
00:09:59 --> 00:10:02 stars. So instead we're using ALMA to look
00:10:02 --> 00:10:04 at the disk around young star. And in this
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 disk, planets are forming. And we using the, high
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 spectral resolution to detect very small motion
00:10:10 --> 00:10:13 in the gas in the disk around the star to find
00:10:13 --> 00:10:16 little planets. It's a new method that we developed
00:10:16 --> 00:10:19 in 2018 when, we got the first high
00:10:19 --> 00:10:21 spectral resolution observation with alma. And
00:10:22 --> 00:10:25 this is the first time that this method has been
00:10:25 --> 00:10:27 applied in a systematic way using alma.
00:10:27 --> 00:10:30 So we obtained what's called a large program. So we
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 were granted almost 200 hours of telescope time
00:10:33 --> 00:10:36 to observe those 15 disks, to do a systematic survey
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 and to try to find those planets. So it's the first time that
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 we do this kind of observation in a systematic
00:10:42 --> 00:10:42 way.
00:10:42 --> 00:10:45 Stuart Gary: So when we look at a protoplanetary disk, there's,
00:10:45 --> 00:10:48 a lot of dust and gas and molecular
00:10:48 --> 00:10:51 debris there, which is all coming together to form these
00:10:51 --> 00:10:54 exoplanets. These are little embryos, basically,
00:10:54 --> 00:10:56 that are forming in gravitationally dense regions.
00:10:56 --> 00:10:59 Christoph Pinte: If you try to observe those systems in the
00:10:59 --> 00:11:02 optical with a classical telescope, the disk
00:11:02 --> 00:11:04 is so opaque so dense that we cannot see through the
00:11:04 --> 00:11:07 disk. So if there are planets in the disk, you will not be
00:11:07 --> 00:11:10 able to see them. So we use ALMA to go to much longer
00:11:10 --> 00:11:13 wavelengths, like you said, in the millimeter, where the
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 dust becomes more transparent. So we're able to scan
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 through the disk to see planets that we would not be able to
00:11:19 --> 00:11:20 see otherwise.
00:11:20 --> 00:11:22 Stuart Gary: Is it the wavelength of ALMA which was the key to this?
00:11:23 --> 00:11:25 Christoph Pinte: Yes. So it's two things. It's the wavelength and also
00:11:26 --> 00:11:28 the fact that at this wavelength, we can see the
00:11:28 --> 00:11:31 molecular emissions. So we see emission lines from the
00:11:31 --> 00:11:34 molecule in the disk. In particular the, carbon
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 monoxide, which we use in that case. And
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 because of the way the instrument is designed, it has a very
00:11:40 --> 00:11:43 high resolution in velocity. So we're able to see
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 very small motion. That we would not be able to see
00:11:46 --> 00:11:48 at other wavelengths. And because the disturbance
00:11:48 --> 00:11:51 created by planets is small Compared to the global
00:11:51 --> 00:11:54 rotation of the disk. Being able to detect very small
00:11:54 --> 00:11:56 motion is the key to find these planets.
00:11:57 --> 00:11:59 Stuart Gary: That means you're using a degree of spectroscopy.
00:11:59 --> 00:12:01 Christoph Pinte: Yeah. So in practice, we're using, ALMA
00:12:01 --> 00:12:04 as a big spectrograph. And because ALMA has
00:12:04 --> 00:12:07 a very high spectral resolution. We're able to detect very small
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 motions in the gas. Like a few 10, meters per
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 second. At this wavelength, the star is not
00:12:13 --> 00:12:16 emitting. And the planet itself is not
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 emitting either. What we're really seeing is a disk.
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 And what we detect is the gravitational impact
00:12:22 --> 00:12:25 of the planet on the disk. So if there was no
00:12:25 --> 00:12:28 planet, the disk would be in Keplerian rotation. And
00:12:28 --> 00:12:30 because there's a planet, the rotation of the disk is
00:12:30 --> 00:12:33 slightly different. And that what allows us to detect the
00:12:33 --> 00:12:34 presence of planets.
00:12:34 --> 00:12:36 Stuart Gary: And you found five planets using this system?
00:12:36 --> 00:12:39 Christoph Pinte: Yes. So we have indication for at
00:12:39 --> 00:12:42 least five planets in the 15
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 disk that we have observed. But we also, in all those
00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 disks, we detected, like, non Keplerian motion.
00:12:48 --> 00:12:51 So that suggests that there might be more planets. But what we
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 detected, too, is that it's, like, more complicated
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 than when we initially believed. So there's
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 other motions on top of the motions created by the
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 planet. That means there's probably other mechanisms that are at play
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05 during the, formation of. That could be interaction
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 with other stars or instabilities in the
00:13:08 --> 00:13:10 disk. Or interaction by companions or
00:13:10 --> 00:13:13 stars that flew by that we can't see, right now.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 But we could potentially still see the effect of those stars
00:13:16 --> 00:13:17 on the disk.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 Stuart Gary: It's a busy place where planets are forming.
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 Christoph Pinte: Yes. The main conclusion of our work is that the planets
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 are forming very early. So basically, at the same time
00:13:25 --> 00:13:28 as the stars themselves are forming. And
00:13:28 --> 00:13:30 stars form in molecular clouds that are very dense
00:13:31 --> 00:13:33 and where stars are interacting with each other. So
00:13:33 --> 00:13:36 it's highly dynamical, process in which planets are
00:13:36 --> 00:13:37 forming.
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 Stuart Gary: A few years ago there was a paper out that surprised a lot
00:13:40 --> 00:13:42 of people. It speculated that the Earth only took
00:13:42 --> 00:13:45 about 5 million years to form. What you're finding here with
00:13:45 --> 00:13:48 these new exo alma readings supports that, that it
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 doesn't take long for a full planet to actually form.
00:13:51 --> 00:13:52 Yes, it's amazing.
00:13:53 --> 00:13:55 Christoph Pinte: Exactly. So we believe those System are between
00:13:55 --> 00:13:58 3 and 5 million years and at
00:13:58 --> 00:14:01 least some of the planets are already formed. So the
00:14:01 --> 00:14:04 planet that we are detecting are big planets too. They're like
00:14:04 --> 00:14:07 a few times the mass of jup. So giant
00:14:07 --> 00:14:10 planets form quickly. We don't have the capacities
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 yet to detect small planets like Earth in
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 those young systems, but it's likely that they form also
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17 on very short timescales.
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 Stuart Gary: These exoplanets you found, they're all large planets, bigger than
00:14:20 --> 00:14:23 Jupiter. Were they far from their host stars or were they
00:14:23 --> 00:14:26 hot Jupiters? Or were they at Jovian type distances
00:14:26 --> 00:14:27 from their host stars?
00:14:27 --> 00:14:29 Christoph Pinte: Oh no. So they're much further away.
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 so Jupiter is five astronomical units
00:14:33 --> 00:14:35 and those planets are between 80 and
00:14:35 --> 00:14:38 250. So they're much further, outside.
00:14:39 --> 00:14:41 So there's probably more planets inside.
00:14:41 --> 00:14:44 Except we don't have the spatial resolution to see
00:14:44 --> 00:14:47 them because one of the limitations is that star forming region
00:14:48 --> 00:14:50 in the galaxy are on average quite far,
00:14:50 --> 00:14:53 150parsec, which is roughly 600
00:14:53 --> 00:14:54 light years for me.
00:14:54 --> 00:14:56 Stuart Gary: That's Christophe Pinte from Monash University
00:14:57 --> 00:14:59 and this space time
00:15:04 --> 00:15:04 foreign
00:15:16 --> 00:15:19 look at some of the other stories making news in Science this week
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 with the Science report in yet another
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 warning that the age of the Terminator and Skynet is
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 getting awfully close. It's been revealed that
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 OpenAI's O3, O4 and Codex
00:15:30 --> 00:15:33 Mini artificial intelligence systems, all of which are used to
00:15:33 --> 00:15:36 help power the ChatGPT. Chatbot will sometimes
00:15:36 --> 00:15:39 disobey direct instructions to turn off and will even
00:15:39 --> 00:15:41 sabotage computer scripts in order to remain
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 operational. The discovery was made by
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 Palisade Research, which searches for dangerous
00:15:47 --> 00:15:49 AI capabilities. It found during its
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 tests that the O3 model sabotaged the shutdown
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 script on seven occasions, the Codex Mini
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 sabotaged it on 12 occasions, and the O4
00:15:58 --> 00:16:00 Mini also sabotaged at least once.
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 Previous studies have already shown that some AI
00:16:03 --> 00:16:06 models will lie, cheat, be deceptive and make
00:16:06 --> 00:16:09 up stuff, even in changing their own code or replicating
00:16:09 --> 00:16:12 it and then hiding it in other programs in order to prevent
00:16:12 --> 00:16:14 themselves from being shut down.
00:16:15 --> 00:16:18 A new study has shown that owning a dog could
00:16:18 --> 00:16:21 reduce a child's risk of developing eczema. A
00:16:21 --> 00:16:24 report in the journal Allergy analyzed data from 16
00:16:24 --> 00:16:27 European studies testing for interactions between the
00:16:27 --> 00:16:30 24 most significant eczema associated genetic
00:16:30 --> 00:16:32 variants and 18 early life environmental
00:16:32 --> 00:16:35 factors such as antibiotic use, breastfeeding
00:16:35 --> 00:16:38 and the ownership of pets such as cats or dogs.
00:16:38 --> 00:16:41 They found interactions between seven environmental
00:16:41 --> 00:16:44 factors and at least one known genetic variant known, to be
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 involved in eczema. And the authors found that exposure
00:16:47 --> 00:16:50 to dogs interacted with a genetic risk variant that
00:16:50 --> 00:16:53 affects immune system response in human skin
00:16:53 --> 00:16:56 cells, essentially providing a protective effect by
00:16:56 --> 00:16:57 suppressing skin inflammation.
00:16:59 --> 00:17:02 It's been discovered that sulphur crested cockatoos in
00:17:02 --> 00:17:05 the suburbs of western Sydney have learned how to use twist
00:17:05 --> 00:17:07 handled water fountains in order to get a drink.
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 The findings, reported in the journal Biology Letters, follow
00:17:11 --> 00:17:13 scientists using cameras to monitor the bird's
00:17:13 --> 00:17:16 actions. The authors recorded the clever cockies
00:17:16 --> 00:17:19 gripping the valve and then lowering their weight on it to twist it,
00:17:19 --> 00:17:22 with a success rate of more than 46%.
00:17:22 --> 00:17:25 The behaviour hasn't been recorded elsewhere around Sydney
00:17:25 --> 00:17:28 yet, but it's likely to spread. You see,
00:17:28 --> 00:17:31 previously, cockatoos in Sydney's southern suburbs learned how to
00:17:31 --> 00:17:34 open the lids of wheelie bins to explore their contents.
00:17:34 --> 00:17:37 And that's a behaviour which has since spread to cockatoos right
00:17:37 --> 00:17:39 across Sydney's vast suburban area.
00:17:41 --> 00:17:44 One of the interesting observational factors in our age
00:17:44 --> 00:17:46 of social media is how come pseudoscience
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 has gone so viral. You see, real
00:17:49 --> 00:17:52 science is slow, cautious and always open to being
00:17:52 --> 00:17:55 wrong. That's how it evolves. But
00:17:55 --> 00:17:58 pseudoscience, on the other hand, is fast. It's loud
00:17:58 --> 00:18:00 and it's allergic to any doubt. And nowhere
00:18:00 --> 00:18:03 is that clearer than online, especially on social
00:18:03 --> 00:18:06 media. Once upon a time, healing was the
00:18:06 --> 00:18:08 domain of science. Trust was earned through
00:18:08 --> 00:18:11 rigorous testing, and health advice came from people in white
00:18:11 --> 00:18:14 coats who spent years studying what could kill us
00:18:14 --> 00:18:17 and what might save us. But as Tim Mendham
00:18:17 --> 00:18:20 from Australian Skeptics points out, today all it takes is
00:18:20 --> 00:18:23 a ring, light, soothing voice and a few dramatic before
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 and after shots in order to convince millions of people that
00:18:26 --> 00:18:28 a miracle cure is just a click away.
00:18:28 --> 00:18:31 Tim Mendham: The audience is history played a major role in people believing
00:18:31 --> 00:18:34 pseudoscience, but there's a lot more practitioners around than there once
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 was. Once upon a time, when you only had the mainstream media,
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 like newspapers and that sort of stuff, very few people got a chance to,
00:18:40 --> 00:18:43 hawk their goods around in editorial or whatever,
00:18:43 --> 00:18:46 because the editor would say, no, I don't think so. And you know,
00:18:46 --> 00:18:49 go away. These days people just set up their own publications,
00:18:49 --> 00:18:51 which is online, TikTok, Instagram,
00:18:52 --> 00:18:55 Facebook, you name it. A whole range of different things that they're using.
00:18:55 --> 00:18:58 And they can promote their wares and their cures and
00:18:58 --> 00:19:01 whether they're sincere or not, or whether they're just marketing for making our
00:19:01 --> 00:19:04 money. And there are definitely some of those around and they look sincere,
00:19:04 --> 00:19:06 they often look young, and they're sort of pitching something sort of particular
00:19:06 --> 00:19:09 cure that this will sort of cure your acne or improve your
00:19:09 --> 00:19:12 running power or whatever, and people believe them. So
00:19:12 --> 00:19:14 what happens is that more people out there spreading
00:19:14 --> 00:19:17 misinformation and a lot more people being overwhelmed
00:19:17 --> 00:19:20 by it because they're not that science literate or even media
00:19:20 --> 00:19:23 literate that they can read that, something's not necessarily
00:19:23 --> 00:19:25 true as it's, if it's on the Internet, as Abraham Lincoln once
00:19:25 --> 00:19:28 said, a lot of these things out there. Lincoln once said,
00:19:28 --> 00:19:29 haven't you heard that one?
00:19:30 --> 00:19:32 Stuart Gary: Einstein, who was concerned about the Internet?
00:19:32 --> 00:19:35 Tim Mendham: No, Abraham Lincoln said, don't believe everything you read on the
00:19:35 --> 00:19:37 Internet. classic cases. I mean, there's cases of, in Australia
00:19:38 --> 00:19:40 of Belle Gibson, who was someone who claimed that, she had cured her
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43 brain cancer because of the herbal medicines and things. So she
00:19:43 --> 00:19:46 started pushing these herbal medicines. She had a book out about
00:19:46 --> 00:19:49 cures and that sort of stuff. And she was raising money for
00:19:49 --> 00:19:52 charity, etc. None of the money went to charity. It all went to her and
00:19:52 --> 00:19:54 it fairly glamorous lifestyle for a while until
00:19:54 --> 00:19:57 people finally pointed out that, hang on a second, you probably didn't have brain
00:19:57 --> 00:20:00 cancer, you probably weren't cured. Where's the money going to? And a lot of
00:20:00 --> 00:20:03 people suffered because of it. Probably a lot of people died because they were using her
00:20:03 --> 00:20:06 goods rather than having treatment for cancer, whatever. But that's a
00:20:06 --> 00:20:09 classic case of, the dangers of believing this
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 young, attractive person pushing a
00:20:12 --> 00:20:14 particular cause with a lot of bright
00:20:14 --> 00:20:16 enthusiasm, et cetera, on.
00:20:16 --> 00:20:19 Stuart Gary: The Internet, that it's a way of cleaning out the gene
00:20:19 --> 00:20:21 pool. But it's really not. Because when people are
00:20:21 --> 00:20:24 reaching that stage in their life and things of that
00:20:24 --> 00:20:27 grim, you do grab whatever you can. That's
00:20:27 --> 00:20:27 just.
00:20:27 --> 00:20:30 Tim Mendham: Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely it is. Yeah. And sort of. And
00:20:30 --> 00:20:33 there are people who will take advantage of that. I mean, just because they are at
00:20:33 --> 00:20:36 the last stage of their life doesn't excuse the fake cures
00:20:36 --> 00:20:39 by any means. But you can understand that. You don't blame the
00:20:39 --> 00:20:42 patient, right? You don't blame the victim so much because you feel
00:20:42 --> 00:20:44 sorry for them in many cases because they are going through tough times. You
00:20:44 --> 00:20:47 certainly blame and can attack the practitioners,
00:20:47 --> 00:20:50 the promoters of this stuff. If they're crooks, definitely they're
00:20:50 --> 00:20:53 fair game. There'll be someone out there to pitch any
00:20:53 --> 00:20:56 product and there will be some scientists out there who
00:20:56 --> 00:20:59 will endorse it, and there will be people of whatever
00:20:59 --> 00:21:02 background, education, qualifications, money,
00:21:02 --> 00:21:03 whatever who will take it up.
00:21:03 --> 00:21:06 Stuart Gary: That's Tim Mendham from Australian Skeptics.
00:21:21 --> 00:21:24 And that's the show for now. Space Time is
00:21:24 --> 00:21:27 available every Monday, Wednesday and Friday through Apple
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 Podcasts, itunes, Stitcher, Google
00:21:30 --> 00:21:32 Podcast, Pocket Casts, Spotify,
00:21:32 --> 00:21:34 acast, Amazon Music,
00:21:34 --> 00:21:37 bitesz.com, soundcloud, YouTube Music,
00:21:37 --> 00:21:40 your favorite podcast download provider, and from
00:21:40 --> 00:21:42 spacetimewithstuartgary.com
00:21:43 --> 00:21:45 Space Times also broadcast through the National Science
00:21:45 --> 00:21:48 foundation on Science Zone Radio and on both
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 iHeartradio and TuneIn radio. And
00:21:51 --> 00:21:54 you can help to support our show by visiting the SpaceTime
00:21:54 --> 00:21:57 Store for a range of promotional merchandising goodies,
00:21:57 --> 00:22:00 or by becoming a SpaceTime Patron, which gives you
00:22:00 --> 00:22:03 access to triple episode commercial free versions of the
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 show, as well as lots of bonus audio content which
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 doesn't go to air, access to our exclusive Facebook
00:22:08 --> 00:22:11 group, and other rewards. Just go to
00:22:11 --> 00:22:14 spacetimewithstuartgary.com for full details.
00:22:15 --> 00:22:18 Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to Space Time with Stuart Gary This has
00:22:18 --> 00:22:20 been another quality podcast production from
00:22:20 --> 00:22:21 bitesz.com