S25E141: Vega C Explodes in Mid Flight // Soyuz Capsule Problems // Space Station Emergency Maneuver

AI Transcript

[0:00] 00:00:00.117" data-end="00:00:12.737">This is Space Time, series 25, episode 141, for broadcast on the 20th of December 2022. 0:07">Coming up on Space Time. An independent investigation underway into a Vega C
00:00:28.017">0:13">rocket failure during launch. A violent leak threatens the space worthiness of 0:18">a Soyuz capsule at the International Space Station. And the space station forced to 0:23">undertake an emergency avoidance maneuver to keep out of the way of a piece of massive space junk.
00:00:36.072">0:29">All that and more coming up on Space Time.

[0:36] 0:52" data-start="00:00:36.080" data-end="00:00:51.920">Music.

[0:53] 00:00:52.897" data-end="00:01:03.907">The European Space Agency has suspended all Vega flights and have established an independent 0:59">board of inquiry following the failure of a Vega C rocket during its ascent to orbit.
00:01:04.397" data-end="00:01:10.622">The ill-fated mission was only the second flight for the new Vega C and its first commercial launch.
00:01:11.126" data-end="00:01:15.024">The new rocket had undertaken a successful maiden flight back in July.
00:01:25.989">1:16">The mission from the European Space Agency's Kuru Spaceport in French Guiana began smoothly 1:21">enough with a spectacular night time launch into the warm black tropical skies.
00:01:26.088" data-end="00:01:37.757">7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, TOP! 1:34">The propulsion is nominal, the piloting is calm.
00:01:44.552">1:38">The trajectory is nominal. 1:41">Acquisition of the telemetry by the Saint-Jean station.
00:01:53.680">1:45">The Bourse parameters are nominal. 1:47">How fantastic to see Vegas Sea roaring across that equatorial sky. 1:51">Yet again one can't take one's eyes off it. It's so impressive.
00:01:53.941" data-end="00:01:59.397">1:54">Like a boil of light grumbling across the jungle. 1:57">This is of course the second launch of Vegas Sea.

[2:00] 00:02:10.973">Rumbling across the jungle. 2:01">This is of course the second launch of Vega-C, 2:04">Europe's new launcher, 2:05">and it has just successfully completed liftoff 2:08">with Playaed NEO 5 and 6 on board.
00:02:11.117" data-end="00:02:18.481">These two satellites designed by Airbus Defense and Space 2:14">are the 119th and 120th to liftoff on a Vega launcher.
00:02:24.891">2:19">What are the main stages of the flight 2:20">we should be looking out for in the next few minutes? 2:22">So in a little less than one minute.
00:02:25.062" data-end="00:02:43.004">The P-130 first stage will have finished its job and it will separate from the launcher. 2:31">This is the second flight of this P-120 stage following the maiden flight and it will also 2:39">be used on Ariane 6 later on.

[2:43] 00:02:43.312" data-end="00:02:51.412">It's always incredible to see the lift off. 2:46">There we go. 2:47">There we have it.
00:02:56.408">2:52">The separation of the P120. 2:53">Well, the DDO has just confirmed 2:55">the separation of the first stage.
00:03:02.512">2:57">So if I've understood correctly, 2:58">the P120, David, is just one of the new features 3:01">of this new launcher, am I right?
00:03:17.152">3:03">Yes, so besides this first stage, 3:05">the second and the fourth stages, 3:07">so the Sephiroth 40 and the Avum have also been improved, 3:12">increasing their propellant capacity 3:14">and therefore the overall launcher performance.
00:03:24.792">And also very important, 3:19">the firing volume has been increased, 3:21">allowing the launcher to accommodate larger satellites.
00:03:25.092" data-end="00:03:32.354">Well, Vegas C is starting to lighten its weight 3:28">and separate from its first stage, the P120. 3:30">What is the next step for the European launcher?
00:03:42.013">So in a few seconds, the Sephiroth 40 stage 3:37">will have finished also its job, 3:40">and it will also separate from the launcher.
00:03:46.569">And the third stage, the Set 9, 3:45">will ignite and continue the mission.
00:03:53.509">3:47">The Vegas C's new solid rocket first stage engine 3:50">performed nominally, propelling the two-satellite payload towards orbit.

[3:54] 00:03:54.040" data-end="00:04:07.372">However, following MECO, main engine cutoff, stage separation and second stage ignition, 4:00">communications with the rocket were suddenly lost, and the launch vehicle began to deviate 4:05">off course, rapidly losing altitude.

[4:08] 00:04:21.817">At the time, the flight was already over 100 km in altitude and some 900 km downrange over the North Atlantic Ocean. 4:16">We see that there's a problem with the trajectory. David, can you tell us?
00:04:28.267">4:22">Yes, so there seems to be an issue with the launcher. We stand by to get more information.
00:04:39.057">4:29">Could you tell us exactly? We can see on the graph in front of us, we can see that the trajectory seems to be going. 4:36">to be going maybe, is it going off course? Can you tell me?
00:04:44.246">Yes, indeed the altitude seems to be lower than expected.
00:04:50.872">4:45">So the altitude we're at 107 kilometers. 4:48">Have you got any news from us from Kourou in your earpiece?
00:04:59.343">4:51">No, not for the time being. 4:53">In this type of situation, how would you interpret this? 4:57">What might have happened, what could happen?
00:05:08.363">5:00">Okay, for the time being, we're waiting to get more precise information on... 5:05">Sorry David, you were saying you're still waiting for news in your airpiece, is that right? That's right, yeah.
00:05:08.426" data-end="00:05:13.857">We can see the DDO, they seem very focused and still concentrated trying to work out the problem.
00:05:25.217">5:14">The French space agency CNES was forced to abort the mission and initiate a self-destruct order, 5:19">blowing up the rocket at its multi-million dollar payload, 5:22">a pair of Earth observation satellites built by Airbus.

[5:26] 00:05:34.337">The Pleiades Neo 5 and 6 spacecraft were meant to join the Pleiades Neo constellation, 5:31">undertaking high resolution imagery of the planet.
00:05:43.094">In your long career, have you already had a problem such as this? 5:39">Yes, yes indeed. There have been issues before, yes.
00:05:56.426">Okay. 5:44">To all of the DDO, following the accident, all means remain activated for a shutdown of the launch base. 5:53">What does that mean David? What did the DDO just announce to us?
00:06:10.632">5:57">Yeah, so the DDO announced that there was indeed an issue with the launcher and so 6:01">So everybody is standing by on the launch base to see what the exact situation is.
00:06:16.213">6:11">The failure appears to have involved the Italian-built Zafforo 42nd stage.

[6:17] 00:06:28.420">It marks the third failure in nine launches for the Vega rocket. 6:21">This launch was originally slated to fly back in November, but it was delayed due to issues 6:26">with the Vegas Sea's new payload fairings.

[6:29] 00:06:29.041" data-end="00:06:42.491">Arianespace chief executive Stephen Israel says the launch failure was unrelated to that issue. 6:35">He says the flight data will be analyzed as part of the inquiry, 6:39">which will be co-led by the European Space Agency and Arianespace.
00:07:01.180">So after the liftoff and the nominal 6:49">ignition of the P120C, which is the first stage of the Vega, an under pressure has been observed on 6:56">Zefiro 40 which is the second stage of the Vega and after this under pressure,
00:07:06.691">we have observed the deviation of the trajectory and very strong anomaly so,
00:07:26.051">7:07">unfortunately we can say that the mission is lost and I want to deeply 7:13">apologize towards our customer Playa Neo and Airbus Defense and Space for 7:19">this failure tonight and we will now have to work with all our partners to,
00:07:35.811">better understand why the Zefiro 40 has not worked properly tonight, triggering the failure of the mission.
00:07:36.189" data-end="00:07:48.691">So we are going now immediately with all the teams, with our primary view and all the partners 7:42">to study what has happened tonight and I really apologize for this anomaly.
00:07:55.445">7:49">Israel further added that neither the Ariane 5 or the new Ariane 6 programs are impacted 7:54">by this failure.

[7:56] 00:07:56.131" data-end="00:08:08.318">But with only two Ariane 5 launch vehicles left in the manifest and the Ariane 6 not 8:01">expected to undertake its maiden flight until later next year, Europe is now left without 8:06">an independent means of accessing space.
00:08:23.082">8:09">The European Union won't use Russian Soyuz rockets because of the sanctions imposed on 8:14">Moscow in the wake of the Kremlin's invasion of Ukraine and so that leaves the United States 8:19">in the box seat, at least until the Vega C is returned to flight status.

[8:24] 00:08:32.994">This is Space Time. 8:26">Still to come, a violent leak threatens the space worthiness of a Soyuz capsule docked 8:31">to the International Space Station.

[8:34] 00:08:33.731" data-end="00:08:39.538">And the space station forced to undertake emergency maneuvers to avoid a massive piece 8:38">of space junk.
00:08:43.051">8:40">All that and more still to come on Space Time.

[8:43] 8:57" data-start="00:08:43.280" data-end="00:08:56.720">Music.

[8:58] 00:08:57.840" data-end="00:09:08.580">The Russian Federal Space Agency at OS Cosmos are trying to determine if the Soyuz MS-22 spacecraft 9:04">will be safe to return crew to Earth after suddenly springing a violent coolant leak.
00:09:09.201" data-end="00:09:21.615">The spacecraft, which is docked at the Razvet module of the International Space Station, 9:13">suddenly started spewing what appears to be ammonia coolant into space, 9:17">just as two Russian cosmonauts are about to begin a planned seven-hour spacewalk,
00:09:25.210">9:22">to relocate a radiator from one Russian module to another.
00:09:47.210">9:26">Coming out of the Soyuz MS-22 vehicle that is attached to the Rassvet module on the earth-facing side of the Russian segment of the International Space Station. 9:37">We do not know what the source of this stream of particles is at the point. At this point, there is discussions that are ongoing.
00:09:59.965">First to make sure that the safety of the two spacewalkers is not compromised in any way, 9:53">and then to determine what impact, if any, this might have on the integrity of that Soyuz vehicle.
00:10:00.210" data-end="00:10:08.985">Neither NASA nor Roscosmos have specified what the coolant was, 10:04">but ammonia, a common spacecraft coolant, can be highly corrosive to many metals.

[10:10] 00:10:09.507" data-end="00:10:18.059">Russian mission managers knew there was a problem when an alarm in the Soyuz diagnostic system suddenly went off, 10:15">indicating a pressure drop in the coolant system.
00:10:26.134">10:19">They then spotted a stream of fluid and particles flowing from the Soyuz 10:22">on the live video feed and quickly cancelled the spacewalk.
00:10:34.794">10:27">Dramatic NASA TV images showed white particles resembling snowflakes 10:31">streaming from the aft section of the Soyuz.
00:10:35.310" data-end="00:10:50.026">The leak quickly caused the temperature in the cockpit section of the Soyuz 10:38">to rise to 30 degrees Celsius, while the temperature in its equipment section 10:42">section initially saw to over 40 degrees before dropping back to 30 after mission managers 10:48">activated additional cooling systems.
00:11:00.154">10:51">Cosmonauts used ventilators in the Russian section of the space station to blow cold 10:55">air into the capsule, reducing temperature in the cockpit back down to comfortable levels.

[11:01] 00:11:11.790">An external inspection of the spacecraft using a camera on one of the space station's robotic 11:05">arms helped identify the location of the coolant leak to a 0.8mm hole in the outer skin of,
00:11:16.394">11:12">an instrument and equipment casing on one of the Soyuz's external radiators.
00:11:22.362">11:17">The leak continued to flow for about three hours until the coolant supply inside was exhausted.
00:11:22.974" data-end="00:11:32.103">11:23">But as Cosmos said, tests of the ship's control systems determined that they weren't affected 11:27">by the leak and no other spacecraft near the Soyuz appears to have been damaged.
00:11:40.470">11:33">Russian engineers ordered the Soyuz to fire up its main thrusters just for a short burst 11:37">to ensure that all systems were nominal.
00:11:54.266">Managers at Star City just outside Moscow are now deciding whether the Soyuz MS-22 will 11:46">be safe for cosmonauts to use for the return trip to Earth in March, or whether it should 11:51">be discarded and a replacement saw is sent up instead.

[11:55] 00:12:03.161">Roscosmos says the next spacecraft, the Soyuz MS-23, 11:59">has already undergone some of its tests in preparation for its launch in March.
00:12:09.183">12:04">But those could be expedited if necessary, 12:06">and the spacecraft set up early without a crew.
00:12:21.552">12:10">Russia has suffered a string of problems with leaks and equipment malfunctions 12:14">aboard the International Space Station or spacecraft that are docked to it, 12:18">and most of these have been put down to quality control issues.
00:12:22.056" data-end="00:12:30.717">However, Roscosmos claimed this latest leak may have been caused by a micro-meteorite 12:27">impact or a tiny piece of space junk hitting the capsule.
00:12:34.038">12:31">But without a close-up inspection, we'll never know.
00:12:42.960">12:35">This is space time. 12:37">Still to come, the International Space Station is forced to undertake an emergency maneuver 12:41">in order to avoid space junk.
00:12:43.359" data-end="00:12:50.332">And later in the Science Report, fossils of a new species of non-avian predatory dinosaur 12:49">discovered in Mongolia.
00:12:54.311">12:51">All that and more still to come on Space Time.

[12:54] 13:08" data-start="00:12:54.320" data-end="00:13:08.400">Music.

[13:10] 00:13:09.839" data-end="00:13:29.492">NASA have cancelled a planned spacewalk and undertaken an emergency maneuver to move the 13:15">International Space Station out of the way of a piece of Russian space junk heading in 13:19">their direction. The three and a half meter wide spent frigate upper stage, used on Soyuz 13:25">and Proton rockets, was predicted to pass within half a kilometre of the orbiting outpost,
00:13:41.599">13:30">far too close for comfort, triggering the highest level red alert. The incident happened 13:35">after two Expedition 68 crew members successfully completed the first of two EVAs or extravehicular,
00:13:52.412">13:42">activities to increase the orbiting outpost's power output. The seven hour and five minute 13:47">Spacewalk successfully installed one of the new IROZA rollout solar arrays, which were,
00:14:08.274">13:53">recently transported to the space station. The team also disconnected a cable to ensure 13:58">the 1B channel could be reactivated, and they released several bolts for the upcoming installation 14:03">of another IROZA solar array, this one on the 4A power channel on the port truss. When.

[14:09] 00:14:14.519">It's installed, it'll be the fourth of six IROZA solar panels that are being added.
00:14:38.531">14:15">Report from NASA TV.

[14:41] 00:14:40.826" data-end="00:14:49.315">Instead of a rigid solar panel, ROSA was crafted from a composite carbon fiber, 14:45">containing an array of solar cells that can be deployed and retracted similar to a tape measure.

[14:50] 00:14:50.351" data-end="00:14:56.994">Using stored strain energy of the material. ROSA was also lightweight and generated power with more efficiency.

[14:59] 00:14:58.903" data-end="00:15:08.823">Now, larger versions of ROSA technology, known as iROSA, are being installed on the station 15:05">permanently through a series of launches and spacewalks. The arrays augment the existing,
00:15:09.544" data-end="00:15:14.369">15:10">power supply and restore power to previous levels when the original arrays were installed.

[15:16] 00:15:15.796" data-end="00:15:29.934">ROSA technology is also an important part of future exploration. 15:20">It will serve as a power source for Gateway, the planned multi-purpose outpost orbiting 15:24">the Moon, ROSA, proven on the space station, and powering its way to the Moon and beyond.

[15:32] 00:15:31.563" data-end="00:15:32.196">Our planet's reach.
00:15:40.772">The new panels will increase the space station's solar power capacity by 30% from 160 up to 15:39">215 kilowatts.

[15:42] 00:15:41.529" data-end="00:15:55.185">However, the planned second spacewalk to install that fourth array was postponed after mission 15:46">managers determined that a large section of Russian space junk which they had been tracking 15:51">for several days was likely to pass dangerously close to the space station.

[15:56] 00:16:04.745">Mission managers in Moscow used the thrusters on one of the docked Progress cargo ships 16:00">to safely maneuver the space station out of the way of the spin rocket stage.
00:16:05.241" data-end="00:16:06.836">This is Space Time.

[16:07] 16:22" data-start="00:16:07.280" data-end="00:16:21.520">Music.

[16:22] 00:16:38.072">And time now to take another brief look at some of the other stories making news in science this week with a science report. 16:30">Scientists have found that a common type 2 diabetes drug metformin is associated with a 30% reduction in the risk of joint replacements.
00:16:49.667">16:39">A report in the Canadian Medical Association Journal compared some 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes who took metformin 16:46">with the same number of participants with type 2 diabetes who didn't take the drug.
00:16:50.367" data-end="00:16:55.653">Researchers found that those who did take the drug had a lower risk of needing knee 16:54">or hip replacements.
00:16:56.227" data-end="00:17:06.357">They say more information is now needed in order to determine whether metformin can be 17:01">used to treat osteoarthritis, a condition which currently has no effective medications.

[17:08] 00:17:07.907" data-end="00:17:16.386">Paleontologists have discovered the fossils of a new species of non-avian predatory dinosaur 17:14">that used to dive into water to find its food.
00:17:17.027" data-end="00:17:34.187">The remains were uncovered in Lake Cretaceous sandstone at a dig site in Mongolia. 17:22">A report in the journal Communications Biology claims the small carnivorous theropod, named 17:27">Natovenata polydontis, meaning swimming hunter with many teeth, walked on two legs and was 17:33">semi-aquatic.
00:17:41.106">17:35">It had a large, streamlined body similar to that of modern-day diving birds and a noodle 17:40">neck like a goose.
00:17:49.118">17:42">The authors say the unusually high number of teeth it had in relation to the size of 17:46">its jaw suggests that it probably ate fish or insects.

[17:51] 00:17:50.727" data-end="00:17:59.930">New findings by the University of South Australia suggest that stressed students might want 17:55">to add walnuts to their daily diet in the weeks leading up to their next exam.
00:18:00.398" data-end="00:18:12.461">A clinical trial reported in the journal Nutrients showed that undergraduate students showed 18:05">positive effects from walnut consumption both on self-reported measures of mental health 18:10">and wider biomarkers of general health.
00:18:21.139">18:13">The study suggests that walnuts may counteract the effects of academic stress on gut and 18:17">microbes during periods of stress, especially for females.
00:18:26.847">18:22">However it's also important to note that this study was funded by the California Walnut Commission.

[18:28] 00:18:28.206" data-end="00:18:38.376">New Twitter owner Elon Musk's revelations, showing how deeply the FBI secretly manipulated 18:34">Twitter in order to prevent free speech and control the information the general public
00:18:48.456">were getting prior to an election, has provided a unique insight into how intelligence agencies 18:44">around the world control what you're allowed to know and what they don't want you to know.

[18:49] 00:18:49.280" data-end="00:18:59.930">And of course the Twitter files are not an isolated case, with Facebook boss Mark Zuckerberg 18:54">also admitting the FBI were instructing them what to censor and who to block out as well.

[19:01] 00:19:00.696" data-end="00:19:09.121">Now they're exposed, the social media giant's claim not getting the full picture was for 19:05">the public good, and it would seem the general public agree.
00:19:18.150">19:10">A Pew Research study shows that in 19 countries surveyed, an average of 57% of people thought 19:16">social media was good for democracy.
00:19:29.664">19:19">In Singapore the figure was as high as 76%, while in Sweden it was 66%. 19:25">In most other countries, including Japan, Germany and Italy, it was in the mid-50s.
00:19:30.196" data-end="00:19:37.667">The United Kingdom saw about 50% of people say it was a good thing, while 48% said it 19:35">was bad and 2% were undecided.
00:19:38.316" data-end="00:19:53.268">Canada was similar with 49% good, 47% bad and the rest sitting on the fence. 19:45">But Australia went the other way, with 50% of people thinking social media was bad for 19:50">democracy and 48% thinking it was a good thing.
00:20:09.156">19:54">In France, 51% said it was bad, while in the Netherlands it was 54%. 19:59">But the standout was the United States, where 64% of people surveyed now believe social 20:06">media was bad for democracy.
00:20:15.288">And with new revelations and the Twitter files continuing to expose the level of manipulation 20:14">involved, who can blame them?

[20:17] 00:20:16.916" data-end="00:20:26.927">There have been changes taking place at Facebook's paracarpany Meta, which has apparently spent 20:22">millions developing clever personal devices that no one really wants or knows what to do with.
00:20:27.556" data-end="00:20:43.276">20:28">With the details, we're joined by technology editor Alex Zahara-Royt from ITY.com. 20:33">In the world of Meta, which also makes the Oculus Quest Pro headset, I saw a fascinating 20:39">article on Gizmodo called Meta is not giving up on the Metaverse just yet.
00:20:52.036">Now this comes hot on the heels of John Carmack, the co-creator of the famous game Doom, saying 20:49">this is the end of his decade in VR.
00:21:02.116">He's quit meta. 20:53">But there's also a blog post from Andrew Bosworth, the CTO and head of Reality Labs, 20:59">which is the division within meta that is looking after virtual reality.
00:21:08.824">And he shows, you know, why we still believe in the future. 21:06">It talks about that I've had a very tough year.
00:21:09.094" data-end="00:21:15.664">I mean, part of the problem is I've got a MetaQuest Pro headset which is technically 21:13">advanced beyond belief. Very, very impressive.

[21:16] 00:21:16.116" data-end="00:21:27.224">But, you know, there isn't really any super incredibly needful use case for this headset 21:22">that can do elements of augmented reality and, you know, you can join people together to 21:26">work.
00:21:39.904">Looks very cool. 21:28">You can be handling various objects in the air in front of you. 21:32">You can make them bigger and smaller. 21:33">You could be looking at a room in a house. 21:36">You could be drawing doorways and adding things virtually to this room.
00:21:40.188" data-end="00:21:52.413">But none of those things are really absolutely killer applications. 21:44">And part of the problem is that Meta lost nearly $10 billion US dollars on this division 21:49">over the past year, which is a huge amount of money to lose.
00:21:58.624">21:53">So for me, VR is one aspect of the puzzle. 21:56">It's one aspect that cuts you off from the rest of the world.
00:22:17.264">21:59">Yes, it allows you to play against other people in this virtual space. 22:03">But I think the real killer application is going to be what's known as augmented reality 22:07">or mixed reality, which is where you've got digital objects appearing on top of real world 22:12">items and the best sort of the one use case that people can really identify with and understand.
00:22:24.371">And we even saw it in the very first Terminator movie with Alan Schwarzenegger back in 84 22:22">was when you've got information appearing beside people.
00:22:30.224">22:25">So you're at a party, the camera recognizes a person and oh, that's Jill. 22:29">I met her six months ago.
00:22:39.744">Or that sort of thing. 22:33">That's right. 22:34">And their kids names are such and such and, or, you know, just even your next door neighbor 22:38">that you don't spend much time with.

[22:40] 00:22:40.125" data-end="00:22:52.179">And you want to know what you want to remember. 22:42">What was the last thing you spoke about them with them? 22:44">You know, you've got this headset, which is put into a pair of glasses that is really 22:48">unobtrusive and some obviously recording that is capturing every aspect of your life.
00:23:01.304">There's this new Mac search engine called rewind, the calling of the search engine for 22:56">your life. 22:57">record a lot of the interactions you do on Zoom and in other areas.
00:23:13.560">That is something that is trying to be useful to help you remember things about your life. 23:06">When you have a headset that is recording everything that you're doing, at least when 23:09">you want it to, you'll be able to remember where you put the keys, you'll be able to,
00:23:16.719">23:14">quickly sort out arguments over who said what, where and when.
00:23:29.386">23:17">The world has these great technological ideas, but we're still trying to figure out how to 23:21">make best use of them. 23:23">And for most people, I mean, I try to show them various things on their phone that they 23:28">didn't know was there. but make.

[23:30] 00:23:29.692" data-end="00:23:38.982">Life on the smartphone so much easier. 23:32">And I see most people are still using their smartphones 23:34">as though they were launched in 2007 with the iPhone, 23:36">or 2008 with the very first Android smartphones.
00:23:48.222">23:39">They're not using their smartphones in a way 23:41">that a digital native, a very young kid 23:44">getting their first phone or iPad 23:45">would be able to use their devices effortlessly.
00:23:54.439">If you've ever seen children using iPads, 23:50">it's very different to the way that adults use them. 23:52">So what's the difference? 23:53">Kids know all the gestures.
00:23:56.212">23:55">They're happy to talk to their devices.
00:24:00.317">You know, older people are using keyboards and mice 23:59">and they're sort of stuck in that mindset.
00:24:04.182">Whereas with kids, you know, they're into swipe up, 24:03">swipe down, swipe left.
00:24:16.462">They know how to go between apps. 24:06">They know how to do various things. 24:08">Anybody can do it, but most people don't read the tips 24:12">or the help or they don't follow the keynotes 24:14">or they don't follow people on YouTube 24:15">that are teaching this sort of stuff.
00:24:25.982">Just getting back to the Twitter files, 24:18">are you surprised at how deeply in bed with Twitter 24:22">the FBI was and how carefully they were manipulating the whole thing?
00:24:25.982" data-end="00:24:29.822">24:26">I mean, they had some like 88 agents working at Twitter. Sure.
00:24:29.822" data-end="00:24:45.022">24:30">I mean, absolutely. 24:31">It's really a worry when you've got government so deeply entrenched into what is meant to 24:36">be an app that... I mean, when Twitter first started, I remember people at Twitter talking 24:41">about this was an app for the free speech wing of the free speech party.

[24:45] 00:24:45.203" data-end="00:24:58.222">Then when you have government and government agencies so deeply embedded in an organization 24:51">that it is sending off specific Twitter accounts to be blocked and the FBI is asking for people 24:56">to be looked at simply because they made a political joke.
00:25:05.662">I mean, are we living in the free Western world or are we living in some sort of alternate 25:04">black mirror reality dystopia?

[25:06] 00:25:13.142">And of course, if all this is happening at Twitter, then what the heck is happening at 25:10">Facebook and Google and Instagram and YouTube?
00:25:23.453">I mean, all of our conversations being listened to on, you know, WhatsApp Messenger, Facebook 25:19">Messenger, iMessage, Skype, you know, you really do have to wonder what's going on.
00:25:31.662">25:24">They say these sort of things are only happening in Russia with the FSB or in China, but it 25:29">shows they're not happening here in the West as well.
00:25:41.862">25:32">Yeah, we're definitely living in very unusual, very interesting times. 25:37">With all of that, many questions. 25:39">Alex Zahara-Royt from ITWire.com.

[25:43] 25:57" data-start="00:25:42.800" data-end="00:25:57.200">Music.

[25:57] 00:26:04.828">And that's the show for now. 26:00">Spacetime is available every Monday, Wednesday and Friday through Apple Podcasts iTunes,
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